workingline best new stud - Page 14

I think pack is right, breeding on ped. alone is stupid! You have to know the dogs as a individual, because i have seen time and time again good dogs come out of a litter and crappy ones from the same litter. A good dog is a good dog and the ped. is just a bonus, but not the only thing to breed by. unless its just for making money from people that dont know any better.  

The importance of the pedigree in a stud dog is the probability of the dog being able to produce what you see or what you are or both!! A good dog with a pedigree that reflects the dog is true to his pedigree is going to be able to reproduce himself much moreso than a good dog with a pedigree that show that the dog is an exception from what he is made up of.
This makes sense to a breeder and will may not make sense to a person who primarilyassesses the dog's phenotype or external traits.

Urxi's produced "mighty good" prelims, or officially certified hips?

I'm not criticizing Zar's handler, only expressing the difficulties one faces if looking for a sporting prospect from true working producers.

You guys just don't understand the Professional Puppy Producers' point of view.
Breeding every female you have to a stud dog you have on-site, regardless off her bloodlines, makes economic sense.
If you crank out enough puppies, say hundred$s of them, and advertise them as "working dogs," shamelessly promoting yourself as an expert extraordinnaire every chance you get, some of them are BOUND to end up titled, used for SAR, assistance, K9, whatever...

Unfortunately, the chances of that one dog being suitable for all females, especially the crummy ones you keep breeding for "pet homes", are quite low. But hell, its a numbers game when you're in it for the money.

 Pretty pet home puppies is where the money is at. At least that is what I see going on. People do not want to deal with crazy boy the 5 month old leaping nightmare in general. The rest of us are a very very tiny representation of the population.

Any more people out there want to share a dog that maybe we haven't heard of ??

 In US only? In europe there are many unknown intressting dogs I think. The policedogs I´m aware of that have been used in breedings are often from good litters/pedigreees, and even if they haven´t competed they at least have a selectiontest done by the police, most of the time above average if considered for breeding. I guess it´s a good thing people dare to try out more unknown dogs for breeding and don´t only concentrate on what many others breed to,.To know what a stud produce I suppose is a problem if only a handfull of the offspring are evaluated .

 Quote: I guess it´s a good thing people dare to try out more unknown dogs for breeding and don´t only concentrate on what many others breed to,

Of course it is. However, many are worried that the litter will not get sold, and they will get stuck with pups, or not get the price that they want for them.

In the US, there are maybe 5000 working dog people total. It is a really really small number. Many people want to get a dog from "known breeders" and that of course is their perogative. It definately keeps the smaller breeders from going out and doing much, because their pups are not going to working homes.

As few, if any breeders in Germany, or any of Western Europe for that matter, breed their dogs with the specific intent of producing LE K9's, the dogs in service can come from just about any stud. The dogs are evaluated on their own merit. Little is mentioned when it comes to "Whose your Daddy". I don't know anyone in Germany, private of police, who raises a puppy in hopes of it someday becoming a police dog.

There has always been an ad in the SV magazine about taking any dogs for Police work...even ones with one testicle.  I have remembered reading that ad for at least the last 15 years.  I have also never encountered any breeder with specific intent to breed for the hopes of a police dog.  Although there are PSH (ZH if you want to include as well) titles as well as DPH notations and you can find pedigrees that have dogs with such notation on the paper.  I have seen pedigrees that have higher or lower concentrations of such dogs (obviously bred with intent).  Of course good dogs as such are nice to have in the pedigree.  I have to wonder why in the US if there are papers that are issued with dogs that are as complete as, let's say, SV papers?     

 Quote:  I have to wonder why in the US if there are papers that are issued with dogs that are as complete as, let's say, SV papers?

Explain what you are asking, as somedays I am too stupid to get simple concepts. Seems like I should get what you are saying, but I am not. : )