showline bred with workingline - Page 14

For what it’s worth Daryl, you haven’t gotten under my skin at all. In fact, I’ve enjoyed your point of view and agree with you whole heartedly that Javir does embody the working attitude that the Captain so eloquently speaks of. But the fact still remains; the ENDURANCE of the working lines has suffered as a result of this total focus on just breeding them for excellence on the Schutzhund field and it is the show lines that excel in that department when the game is taken to the show ring. The way I see it, this is the only piece of the puzzle still missing from the working lines as a whole. I honestly do not see how you cannot at least consider mixing the two when the breeding may call for it.

Jacko, thank you for consistently reminding us to enjoy our dogs because that really is what it all boils down to.

It astounds me that this subject can hardly be discussed without getting into who's go it right.  I placed value on the argument of whether or not these lines should be crossed because of the too very different schools of thought about the direction the breed should be heading in, held so passionately by the two opposing parties.  You would think one would want nothing to do with the others breeding lines, when all that we seem to try to establish is "who breeds the better gsd".  The direction this thread has taken would indicate to this thinking person, in light of the contentious back and forth around here, that the s/l's should stick with their lines and the w/l's should stick with their own lines.  The irony seems to be however, that thereseems to be a bit of hipocrisy at work here. How can you in one breathe say that that your dog is every bit the equal to the other at its own game, when in fact, you feel the need to bolster your lines with the same line of dogs you just detracted from.  It does seem somewhat pretentous for s/l breeders to say that not their dogs who are meant to excel in the show are more capable than the w/l dogs who are purpose bred in their own right. I can see where some would be a little offended by this.

Maywood,

 Are you able to back up your genetic endurance claims with some sort of physical proof?  I don't do schutzhund, however if that's the only excersice your dog gets it won't be in the best of shape.

Again, I will state (ignore it if you like) I have three working line GSD, all from different lines that are able to run behind my truck 10-15 km once a week at an elevation of 4500 feet.

First of all I don't necessarily condone attaching your dog to the back of the truck and trying to improve their conditioning in this manner.  To me, this is a form of animal abuse.  If you are seriously considering doing real road work with your animals, you have to get your fat ass out of the truck and run with them.  This is the only way to truly observe the condition of your animal while you train with them.  Too much can go permanently wrong if you are not careful.   

Also, you have to break this exercise into chunks and slowly build them up.   I jog with my dogs 5 days a week for only 2-3 miles at a time keeping a keen eye on them for problems.  This is serious business and should not be taken lightly. 

Some people just can't be pleased. Aeros is a great working dog. Congratulations, and best wishes to him and his owner.

I think what's lacking in a lot of working line dogs today is type. And when you loose the type, you loose the breed. You might as well breed Mals then, no one will be able to tell the difference. GSD is not a sport breed, never was intended as such.

On the other hand, a lot of show line dogs today, with plenty of type, yes, are lacking in agility and desire to work (or drives you can call it).

That is why I think mixing the two CAN be a great idea. The trick is to find a working line dog that has plenty of head and bone strength, correct, strong topline, and at least somewhat good angulations, and a show line dog that is not overdone but nearly perfect in structure, and is a great worker. Solid nerves are a must on both sides. This is not such an easy task as one might think, and no, not every breeding like this will be a success, but I think it is absolutely necessary before the breed is too far gone in both directions. JMO.

My dogs aren't attached to the back of my truck, they run freely. I live in the country and the exercise is on forest service roads with no traffic. I don't need lessons from you on conditioning my dogs. They get a balance of running, swimming and work. I wish I could run with them, but I have two ruptured discs in my back, so the best I can do is a 5 km bike ride twice a week and walks.

Again can you back up your claims of genetic endurance problems or would you like to keep dodging the question?

Get a wheel chair then.

Maywood,

What's a wheal chair? I guess you have no proof do you?

Von Lotta,

 Can you go into detail on what traits you see in the working lines that has pushed them to the edge?

I don't know what to tell you man.  It is very difficult to capture this kind of proof while your actually working the animal for long periods of time.  It's not like anyone is going to be able to capture this in a two minute video clip.  One thing is for sure, I have no reason to lie or make this shit up.  I have actually seen the results.

BTW, bicycles are no good either because people have a tendancy to go too fast and not even realize it.

Sorry for the spelling error.  Smartass

If my dogs break from running behind my truck or beside my bike to be honest they had issues to begin with. I don't start them until they're 14 or 15 months old and we work up to the longer distances. I guess running them was the wrong term to use, it's more of a trot. The dogs are never worked to the point of complete exhaustion, but they're constantly pushed. They all look forward to the excercise and I have never had a problem with  any of them.

I don't need a wheel chair, my back just can't handle the repetitive impact from running.