German rules for German Shepherds - Page 13

Have you ever looked at the numbers of German Shepherds being bred and sold? Not all of them go into "working" homes. That is a fact!

Yes, we did sell dogs into pet homes. We did weed out dogs that went into pet homes and my father always bred socially stable dogs that would rock on the field or at the job they were given.
You could always trust our dogs in social situations.

A German Shepherd living as a pet is not an exception if you look at the sheer number of Shepherds produced worldwide. The working German Shepherd in the United States is the exception. The GSD living as a pet dog is the norm.
One has to be realistic.

I've been there where you are. I lived in a sheltered world of rock solid GSD's. But that little world we lived and grew into is just not the reality.

I would say here in sweden those who seriously breed for work prefer to sell their dogs to people who are going to use them in service or in some kind of working activity, this doesn´t mean they also could be a pet but naturally a breeder of workingdogs want their dogs to have an active life and the owners doing something with the dogs, even if this may not be IPO or bitesport, could be tracking or some other activity.

I guess we can say the absolute worst breeders would be limited if US implemented german regulation. But then again, as long as the motivation is not a healthy strong workingdog people would still be able to massproduce mediocre dogs, just as they can do today in germany, it´s always a way around a system if it´s not much harder than today, would more breeders train their dogs or let someone else train them instead for the necessary titles? And what does it help the breed if a breeder manage to get the necessary titles but the puppybuyers are still not intressted to do much with their dogs, really not much proof that the dogs produced are any good if they are not going to be tested or worked in some way. The puppybuyers who are wanting a dog for service or sport are likely not going to choose a breeder with many generations of unproven american line GSD anyway, or? If they don´t have that knowledge I guess they could easily be fooled by the breeder that a german breedsurvey means the dog is a top candidate for work. Remember the malinois in certan countries have far less regulations than for GSDs in german yet their health and workingability in general seems much better because most breeders don´t care about beauty or dogs who hasn´t the drives for the work.

joanro; how can you ask Germany to have stricter rules for korung, in this thread , and then maintain that you see no need to  follow any rules in other threads? A sophisticated breeder looks at paper work but then goes and sees the future stud dog in training and in trials for a more complete view. The next sentence[s] are not an anti-mali statement. No controls or limited controls for the mali worked before, but I predict that as the breed gets more popular, many more specimens will be far different than the historic mali. It will be the same problem we have in the GSD. That  problem is too many breeders believing they know what is best for the breed and going their own way. I bet it is already happening in the mali. The best GSD specimen bred to each other will not produce better and better GSDs. There is always ''throw away'' specimens in any breeding program, just look to nature for examples. A good breeder when given the opportunity to provide a ''pet'' GSD can look into his litter and find one perfect fit  from every litter. May the worst bred GSD be the best pet. That is a lofty goal. It takes knowledge to pick and place pups. It is learned thru involvement in the breed at many levels. It takes more than the 5 years most self proclaimed experts give to the breed. This thread was started to point out that Untied States has no direction and I beg to prove susie wrong but.........................

The point of the matter is that there are so many G.S Dogs being bred from which are not health tested and are not tested at all for temperament or in fact tested to see if they can cope with pressure i.e How they stand up to pressure in different surroundings is paramount. So then we can see the Dog being bred from has good Joints and is of a stable nature; and anyone breeding should be made by Law to undergo these tests with there breeding Dogs . and to go a bit further all Litters should be registered and if they do not then the Law should be such that the Owner breeder is given a fine which amounts to 4 times a normal litter value. No matter how well a Dog is bred or how good it work rate is. it is certain that not every Puppy born will be good enough to carry on after its parents, But at least the amount of Pet home Pups will be cut down and hopefully the above will discourage some breeders to bother  breeding at all
Steve1

gsdstudent, I guess it´s me you refering to and not "joanro", my point is unless the regulations aren´t more ambitious than a breeders personal motivation and goal for a workingdog they don´t mean so much do they? You don´t need a good workingdog to pass a german breedsurvey, and you still can breed a dog even if his relatives have much HD/ED or the dog himself has other problems that aren´t tested for and therefore you need more than a breedsurvey to know about. So unless the regulations are very strict both on workingability and health the breeder in the end has the most impact, and he/she is also depending on the buyers to work and test the dogs to have a clue on how his breeding produce. I suppose that´s why the working malinois is in better "shape" than the majority of GSDs, despite lack of regulations. I guess it´s also not realistic that the regulations can regulate everything so to speak. But sure, HD/ED-checking would be a minimum also in US, but still such requirements are far from telling you much even about the risk of getting HD/ED from a planned breeding.

Guess I'm not a sophisticated breeder...lol, but at the end of the day what you consistently produce attests to your sophistry....and I'm comfortable with that!

The issue is people not willing to dish out thousands of dollars if they can just get another Shepherd for 400 bucks from the towns own byb breeder. German rules will not change that. Working Dog People are the exception. Even in Germany there are BYB's breeding outside the standard.

The matter of the fact is, you will always have a market for both. If you are a good breeder that breeds to a certain standard you will have your clientele and you will also have your clientele when you are a BYB.

If there wasn't such a huge market for BYB's we wouldn't have an issue with them, would we?

Just looking around my community, I've been trying to educate people on what a responsible breeder is, there are facebook pages in and around Fort Drum specifically to sell puppies and all of those breeders are backyard breeders. People seeking puppies for a 150 dollars because they can't "afford more" than that. It's an issue everywhere and even those people will find a puppy.

In a perfect world people would spend as much time researching breeders as they spend to research the new I-Phone, but we don't live in a perfect world...

As i said what about the Dog Pounds; Far better to give them 150 dollars and save a life of a G.S there. and do the BYB out of money; But people will not simply because they think they may be getting something special for little money; and in many cases this is true and that does not only apply to animals. that is why the BYB does such trade, bring in rules and regulations to close them down
Steve1

Character
The German Shepherd Dog must be well-balanced (with strong nerves) in terms of character, self-assured, absolutely natural and (except for a stimulated situation) good-natured as well as attentive and willing to please. He must possess instinctive behaviour, resilience and self-assurance in order to be suitable as a companion, guard, protection, service and herding dog.


FCI states a GSD is a companion............isn't a companion a pet?
Its stated first, which gives it more importance than the rest in the list.
 

com·pan·ion ¹(km-pnyn)

a. A person who accompanies or associates with another; a comrade.
b. A domestic partner.

Yes a pet can be a companion but a companion does not necessarily mean a pet IMO. As I consider my dogs pets. However the nature of our association(by the text book definition above) to be a companion/partnership is "you work" and "and I allow you(dog) resources". A companion or a partnership requires something from both sides. Equaling investment on both sides. If you forget dogs were domesticated to make our lives easier not more difficult. IE the dog worked for its food. The training bared fruit in the form of finding and retrieving game and or guarding. This has been the nature of this relationship for how many years until rescently.

The intention of most when they say "pet quality" or dogs going to "pet homes" or "GSD is not a pet"  or "Pet" with disdain is due to the generalization of the attitude of most "pet owners". That do not seriously train or work there dogs in any facet. That humanize, do not understand dogs, etc.... These people and their demand has led to the derogation of all working breed dogs period. The GSD is not meant to be an animated stuffed animal 24/7 - 365 as a pet or in a pet home period. It was designed to fulfill a role or duty.

So to reinstate the working abilities in dogs most notably the GSD on a broad scale instead of our small niches you must either only deal with working dog people only or educate others to understand the breed and only procure it if they need or fit the breed. Not change the breed to fit the buyer or ignorantly slap dogs together to mass produce pups fit the demand of the customer. Thats why many are in favor of rules for breeding practices. If it were feasible and I felt like it would make a good strong impact I would be all for it in a heart beat. However I just dont think the impact would really be there. I think it would have more impact if we were a smaller nation and more people were invested however I feel like we are to large and to small of a niche for those rules to have any major impact. JMHO