WL + SL = BL??? - Page 13

Wasn't Darwin a big fan of abberations ???  Where would we be without them???

Not for Breeding!!!!lol

But knowledgeable breeding should be able to control and optimize the good "abberations" while "culling" the bad ones. 
      

Seems like you have the answers....I'll be waiting to see the product....smile!

I brought Timo up not as an example of his working abilities, which are not in dispute, but to show that some sables have cracked the top ranks in the show ring and overcome the prejudices of many.

I'm not well versed in genetics, but IMPO, I'd look at the average dog out of that litter as a fair indicator of what further reproduction of those dogs may or may not produce.  I also agree that in order to begin down this path, you can't just breed to the proberbial WL, but you'd have to select one that brings drive and temperament along with conformation that will add to the cross.

But what you state of "tarnishing" a dog's reputation, may only be true among those who can't see the difference between his WL/WL progeny and the product of these WL/SL crosses.  And you are right in that the over-spcialization of four decades can't be undone in a few years...  But it would be a good start.

NYpiper, it used to be (in Germany) that when you went to register a litter, you'd get 5 registration applications...  8 pups, you could still only register 5.  So, you had a choice. Sell the untitled dogs for a pittance, or cull them at birth...  It is hard to predict at that stage which one will be a star or a dud.

Charlie319 it's a pleasure to the heartreading your posts and not less educating than those of Gustav"s or the other elder members, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Ibrahim

Gustav,
I do not have all the answers....but I do know this...
"It is too much work" is NEVER a good answer.

I think Vandal is being bred to quite a few different WL females.  It will be interesting to see what the resulting pups are like.

Charlie, I was using Timo as an example of color difference, and Gucci as the working example. Since Timo, who are the VA sable colored dogs that have been put up? And if there are none; then my point is in terms of color....he is the defender of the nonbias against sables by the apologists.
NYpiper.....what most people are missing and many don't want to discuss is that people's likes are way too important in breeding decisions, as opposed to breeding needs. The SL dog is a systematic creation of forty years of people breeding for what they like instead of balance. You can't undo something that is 40 years in creating with some simple 2 or 3 generation fixes or and then reverting back to old mentalities. You have to change the whole concept of what is a SL dog....especially in work, structure, and color. You have to go back to moderation in structure, hardiness in work, and all acceptable colors if they possess the other two. If these things don't change....nothing changes....I've been saying this for 20 years and guess what.....still waiting; that's why this subject always ressurects. People want to keep what they like and fix the other parts....unfortunately what they like has to be dismantled and a level playing field established for the SL world to ever gain respect again. People don't want to do this....some don't realize what it takes and offer half solutions, others realize but let their "like" override their "love" of the breed. I have no respect for Judges or Breeders that allow their breeding direction be dictated by color, gait, or drives. Sure these are parts but only parts and should by no means be the impetus of breeding goals. Sheep follow the lead....the dogs that are placed on the podium in sport and show are flocked to with better females and males for reproduction. It is pitiful that the dogs at the top place by "respected Judges" and shown by "respected bredders" have fallen victim to this travesty. When I bring up these issues, the SL people clam up like church mice, because its hard to debate reason with like.
Anyway, that's my rant for 2012, I usually do it once a year, and then I'm good til next year.....You know the sad part....the sad part is every year this rant is still valid!!!!!