showline bred with workingline - Page 11

 Quote: Some of these what you call "show" dogs have their HGH, Show training V rating, then they get the Sch. title, kore report. Anyone who has accomplshed this knows this is a quality all around dog with a lot of time invested . You are right when you say "what else would it need" what could another line bring to it. Just don't dismiss structure in your comments, as it is part of the program.

What crap. These titles have been sold for years, and you still don't get it ? Buy one of these bad boys and try it at home. Watch the shitter sit in confusion. He will have NO idea what it is that you want. 

How gullible do you have to be ? I cannot recall how many times I have been asked to evaluate a dog that is supposed to be a Sch3 and the dog had no clue.

Do you really think all this great stuff is going on ? Just by numbers, you are bound to get one out of the 300 litters a year that some of these shitters are producing.

Show me any line that is consistantly producing working "showlines". 

Jeff,

I am not here to argue.  I only know I have titled my dogs and had help too, but they were titled.  I am no body to buy anything.  I did not buy  my V ratings or my SG1's.  I have had 4 and now my 5th dog so I have done it.  Don't knock it till you try it.

Are their politics...sure.  Go look at your own working scores to see this.  I can bring up the negative.  There are problems in everything.  However, I know what I want in a dog.  I know how I am going to train it, and will make it happen.   Just go through these classifieds and you can had a good laugh if you like on both sides as to what are called breeders in some cases. 

You selectively read a post.  I coved folks in the show lines as i also point out that some "working" folks that have puppies for the ball drive.  I am sure you're not one of those.

Well, I found a few good dogs and bloodlines out there and as smart as you come across here I am sure you can go find some too.  

I will tell you one story since you seem angry and nasty about my claim Jeff.  I had a very respected and big time helper trainer, into Police and working dog training.  One day in training out of the blue, while my dog was doing a hold and bark in the blind, the soft stick started hitting my dog on the head.  I thought WTF, I am sure it will stop quickly as this is not the norm.  Just few seconds past and when my count hit 12 i move the dog out as the 16th hit whacked her.  She was juiced up for sure.  Made the dog a bit dirty.  I never had that person work the dog again.  Had to go some where else and clean the bite work up.    All that was said was "sorry, I just wanted to see what she could take, she is the toughest bitch I have ever seen."  "Can I breed my male to her"  

There you go, I don't have to make this stuff up.  I have seen it go both ways. 

Enjoy your dogs.

Dary,

I am not being vague, I have given you a dogs name.  You need to go see what you would consider ok, my opinion won't matter anyway.  I am not trying to change your opinion, I just think you should go see for yourself.  As i said, sometimes you will laugh and some times you may clap.   The key is to have fun. 

Enjoy.

Triumps Gucci , his owner, Lida

Thanks.  I had seen the name Triumps Gucci before, but figured it was one of those French or Italian dogs :-)

Javir vom Talka Marda

             vs

Panjo vom Kirschental 

Here are a couple of excellent videos of both dogs performing on the same field under the same conditions. Now you tell me, are the show lines so SIGNIFICANTLY WORSE to warrant such disdain the working line radicals have been spewing on this thread?

 I think that those two bites is not enough to judge a dog really, significant worse or not, most of todays showlines can´t compete with the workinglines due to their more clumsy structure and not being breed for workingdrives as priority. If it really was true that the showlines have better structure for work then I ask myself why dingos,wolves, sleddogs and such have a more natural structure and the herding dogs at the beginning of the breeds creation also was not looking like todays showdogs.

Maywood.  Thanks for the links.  By the way Panjo was SG 1 in he class youth class and V 10 i think last year.   Johan your post proves to entire thread.  You need to be proud of and enjoy your dog.  The GSD as a whole needs should work on conformation.  I love to see a well put together sable male working.  What a beautiful site.

The video clips enough to judge these dogs.  No you are correct.  So lets take Panjo.  Here's some info to judge the dog.  He is from a working kennel of almost 60 years.  The kennels history and achievements are remarkable. 



Enjoy your dogs.

Panjo's breeding goes back on a long line of Kirschental dogs to a time even before Canto or the S/W split.  I've always understood Kirshcental to be a selective breeder for their bloodline's ability in working livestock, and less so categorized with only "showline" breeding goals in mind.  So, I think that lends toward an exceptional ability among his class of breeding.

However, I myself see a drastic difference in the bitework.  Panjo seems a little handler dependant, but that's OK, and he's not appearantly weak nerved, although a tad uncertain of himself.  Maybe doesn't train a lot of protectionwork.  He'd make a nice "club level" schutzhund dog, IMO.  You have to kidding if you see hardly a difference in drive.  At least, I'm sure his owner loves him, so I don't have to :-)

The other thing to consider.."speaking of Panjo"....the Kirschental Kennel, has included both working bloodlines along with show bloodlines for many years.....so there must be more than just a "handful" of dogs that exhibit true GSD temperament and structure from the combinations of lines.
I believe that you can have Form AND Function......a good GSD is a dog with both..
Both bloodlines have the same importance.,,,JMO.