GSD breeder for ring sport? - Page 10

Judron, not a temperament problem. I'm just a bitch-- savvy? ;-)

suenicc

I was not talking about the specific dog in the video  it was just a video I found on you tube to explain what I meant

but what I meant with the video is that man does this ball motivation alot with their adult dogs too especially before they do some obedience

suenicc

I know that the ball is a reward but many use it as a motivator to get the dog motivated or in high drive then hide the ball and do their thing after they play a litle game that the dog is going to catch the ball and the dogs try's to get it then the handler quickly hides it away and then thay have gotten the dog in drive many handlers does that alot when training obedience

I'll just use another video alot of them on the internet

that exatly the same handler has to motivate the dog before training obedience with a ball or toy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yECsHX8buls 

Myret, I don´t care about drive,drive,drive if the dog isn´t balanced in his other traits, it´s more the other way around, the dogs in former times was less preydriven and lively, just look at dogs from early 90s and the 80s. If kimbo wasn´t used in germany who cares, maybe he didn´t had enough points in SCH;) If you want a soft dog with very high prey and play then maybe some of the lines of malinois is better for you.
French GSD lines have already been used a lot for a couple of years know in sweden in the progeny of the policedog bruksmarkens monark, he have nice offspring many says, what does it matter if the germans haven´t used him? If kimbo produces mostly defencdriven dogs as you said it´s strange his offspring are as fast as they are in SCH, what I´ve seen in several of the offspring and grandchildren is dogs who seems controlled and powerfull, not only screams and stress and hanging on the sleeve like a dead fish. So having kimbo in the pedigree seems not a bad thing judging from the dogs character compared to many other alternatives.

Ok jeff, I guess we can disagree who is twisting what, if you think I´m an idiot because saying speed isn´t everything and always king so be it.

MOST trainers do it, and it has nothing to do with a dog not having enough drive.  It's a tool used to teach puppies they must always be in drive.  Eventually the dog learns he must work in drive regardless of whether or not the handler has a ball.  It is also a good tool after a hard correction to bring drive back up immediately.  If the dog only works in drive when he thinks the handler has a ball that is usually a training error has nothing to do with whether or not the dog has high drive.  The exception would be shitters and who cares about shitters?  

You are wrong if you think trainers only use balls because a dog doesn't have enough drive otherwise.


 

Quote: Myret, I don´t care about drive,drive,drive if the dog isn´t balanced in his other traits, it´s more the other way around, the dogs in former times was less preydriven and lively, just look at dogs from early 90s and the 80s. If kimbo wasn´t used in germany who cares, maybe he didn´t had enough points in SCH;) If you want a soft dog with very high prey and play then maybe some of the lines of malinois is better for you.

So, if a dog doesn't show defense, ( for the thousanth time) then it is not balanced. Right ? I mean, they HAVE to have both, right ? What happens when a dog just flat out isn't scared of you ?? According to your theory, it is going to run off because it is not balanced.

What line of Mal are you talking about ??


QUOTE:  It's a tool used to teach puppies they must always be in drive.  Eventually the dog learns he must work in drive regardless of whether or not the handler has a ball. 

That is the big problem, the puppy needs to be propped up, as he was not born with the ability to maintain drive on his own. ( off switch ) 



Quote: It is also a good tool after a hard correction to bring drive back up immediately. 

Covering for the dogs inability to recover. 



QUOTE: You are wrong if you think trainers only use balls because a dog doesn't have enough drive otherwise.

No, but with out the ball work to condition the dog to STAY in drive longer and longer periods of time, the dogs higher thresholds start to get in the way of training, as the dog is going to work because he has too, and all of a sudden, looks like a lot of the other dogs from the past, or fails.

I saved this one special for last.

Ok jeff, I guess we can disagree who is twisting what, if you think I´m an idiot because saying speed isn´t everything and always king so be it.

Name one time that it is a disadvantage to be faster. Name one sport that is better to be slower. Name one race or competition that the people that finish at the end are the winners.

Yes, you can now clearly see why I believe that you are a dumb ass. AND, you did not play sports, and if you did, you must have been the slow kid getting punked all the time.

Quote: this is what I like ,drive drive drive

this dog has temperement  and I could imagine hard to control because of his drive that is a driven dog

I like your first example a lot. The other, not really. Those people do a lot of fancy table work to make the dogs look better, also, way too hectic. Who knows though, he might produce very well. I have read that a lot of people like his pups. 

Jeff, of course it´s an advantage to be fast and precise in sport, exactly what I said over and over. But I haven´t said  a workingdog always is the ideal sportdog, and for me the defintion of a working GSD isn´t only a dog that are good at sport but less ideal for policework. I thought I was very clear on that. Sure there are dogs that are good for both venues, irrelevant of speed, but it seems you thinks a dog that is super intense playing tug or running very fast after a decoy in the fleeattack then must be a dog that has the best nerves and general a stronger mentality for whatever a situation and job it faces as a policedog. And just because a dog shows only play and prey in the bitework you actually mean then it must be a courageous animal that lacks fear, not only for humans but all kind of suprises and environments?

I also like a fast explosive dog in sportwork, but I rather breed to a dog which may be a bit slower but is reliable and strong also outside sport then a very sporty dog that are nervous and to mentally soft to suit as a PSD. In other words, a good versatile dog for me is a dog that can do it both and not having competition as the only criteria to breed for.