Training Retrieves- methods - Page 1

A discussion is going on amongst trainers who have some opposing viewpoints and strong feelings.  Some believe it should be stress-free and may use the clicker to mark and chain behaviors or teach it like a fun toy, others believe in teaching it with compulsion.  How much do you agree or disagree with these statements, and why?

"A reliable retrieve needs at least some compulsion and/or correction."

"A reliable retrieve can and should be done completely positively."

(AKC competition retrieves, gun dogs, but also as a command in general.)

My statement would be a reliable retrieve means the dog understands every part of the behavior chain.  Whether that's all positive or a forced retrieve or some combination doesn't really matter to me.  I only have one dog that I've trained to do formal SchH retrieves and I did it entirely with freeshaping and backchaining, but that is the training style I have the most experience with.  I have nothing against a forced retrieve I just don't have enough experience to do it effectively without a LOT of help.  The few dogs I've seen it done with did not turn out well, at least not to me, but the handlers were inexperienced overall and had no previous experience training a retrieve with any method.  The dogs are/were inconsistent and show various problems that have to be "fixed" and to me when the retrieve behavior chain is trained correctly, you aren't going back to fix things because the dog already understands what you are asking.  So, I don't agree with either statement since I've yet to see a really, really nice forced retrieve yet don't think it's necessary to use purely positive training.

Is this for the Kuvasz?

My dog will retrieve anything you ask her to because I started out with her ball.  It's all a game to her.  That being said...when it came time to do the dumbbell, she refused!  It took quite some time to convince her.  The club president was to the point of wanting to do the forced retrieve but I just did not want to go that route because this dog really tries to please me.   Her main problem was her wanting to chew on it rather than bring it to me.  (Too many tree branches used for toys in the back yard)  I was told to wrap rough jute rope around the ends to discourage this and it worked like a charm.  I also teased her with the dumbbell so that she was eager to get a hold of it and once she did I would call her to me with lots of praise and a tasty treat to exchange for it.  Now, when we are on the field when I have released her to play after an exercise, she makes a bee-line for the dumbbell rack and noses the dumbbells.  She would rather retrieve those than play with her ball now.  I don't like the concept of forced retrieve unless you have a really stupid dog or one that doesn't care about pleasing you.  If you have a dog trying really hard to figure it out, it's you that is the problem not the dog.  Try a different approach.  Just my 2cents worth.
Deb   

Do you have a video of your dumbell retreive with her DebiSue? Would love to see it! Thanks!

My girl will also retrieve anything, however she would drop it at my feet. I talked to Les Flores about this and he told me to throw the dumbbell and as soon as she ran and picked it up for me to immediately run the oppisite direction he told me not to give any commands. when she got to me not to stop at let her push the dumbbell into me, once she did that start pushing her away, make it a game.  She pick up on this very fast only a couple times.  Now I can send her out for the dumbbell and she will go fast pick it up bring it back and sit in front of me holding the dumbbell until I give her the command to out.  She sometimes will still drop it, but I start the game again and she gets it fast.

Hi gsdshow,

Do you have a video of your dumbell retrieve with your dog? I'd love to see it!

Regards,
contimali

REMOVED ''WAS NOT THE REQUIRED COMPETITIVE MATERIAL''

what people really like to see in schutzhund though is not a half assed dumbell retrieve. all normal people can run, but can all normal people run well? sure as a sprinter you must follow the rules of the track, but just because you follow rules doesn't make you a good sprinter. you must train to quickly get off the starting line and build speed to be fast and finish strong. Such is the case with the dumbell retrieve. Lief the video above is cute, but not competitive material obedience.

I did not say it was that dog is a pet I'm not a SchH competiter like you nor have i ever claimed to be, and I'm sure you can post a video of your dog in a competition that will better demonstrate But I'm not sure the OP talking about just SchH