2008 USA Sieger Show - Page 7

Blitzen, I have another idea for a bumper sticker!!! you are going to love this one....It might have to be larger than the normal sized ones though..........Drum Roll Please.....................

UScA Sieger Show 2008 

"Rules? we don't need no stinkin' Rules!"

LMFAO Don...as I watched the videos, many times I thought, "Wow, someone PAID someone else for that training?!"

Probably paid a pretty penny, too...I'm in the wrong business....

Chris, my thoughts exactly! My boss has an incredible dog that has broken many world records, and he prefers to exhibit her in Europe because they have a much higher appreciation for a good trainer.

I notice many of the people coming down hard on those who do not handle and train themselves are WL enthusiasts. Do you have a problem with people who buy top BSP participants so they can excel in our national schutzhund events? Do they get more respect from you than someone who imports a top conformation dog to get VA here? What is the difference?

See, I really don't care either way. The more good genes in this country the better.

I also notice a trend of those who treat others who have been successful with harshness, or as I see it,  jealousy.  It would not hurt to congratulate and support the select few who've earned it, rather than just lump everyone together and bitch about it.

I don't understand the bias against professionally trained and handled dogs either.  

I think someone should get a nod if they take their own time and money to train the dog themselves.........It is called the HOT Championship and every trial gives the high hot a piece of plastic glued to a fake piece of wood too.  It is acknowledged and I think it is a hell of an accomplishment!    However, most higher end trainers don't waste their time with puppies.  There is too much time and things that could go wrong.  If taking a trained dog was so easy, we'd see more repeat winners.

I am with you on that 100%. 

Buying Tiger Wood's clubs, bag, balls, clothes and hat, will not make you golf like Tiger Woods!

sueincc: I think there is an issue with some breeders who do not work their own stock not having a good eye for correct temperament or correct work. I think those who do not work their own dogs are more prone to kennel blindness.  There are many would-be breeders who dump money into a few titled dogs that some Germans were eager to get rid of, and are breeding them indiscrimantly, think they have the cat's meow because they have titled imports.

However, it is NOT fair to lump every person who pays to have their dog titled in that category, because many of them are not that way.  But I think that's where some people are coming from.

The way I see it, it isn't any of my damn business if someone sends their dog to a trainer or to the Dali Lama. If I'm in the market for a stud dog or a puppy, it's MY responsibility to check that dog out and makes sure the work matches the title.

Yes, it's disheartening to watch the videos. Even more disheartening to read the results. You know how I fix it on my end? I don't breed to those dogs that I don't feel measure up, or buy puppies from those breeders. Simple.  Now, poor work can often be the result of poor training, but unless I know the dog personally, that's not a chance I'll take.

It woud be nice if rather than finger pointing and insulting, US breeders could actually work together, use each others' best dogs like they do in Europe, maybe then our VA dogs could also be German VAs.

That seems fittin', Deeswolf.

Dog1: Louise. No one doubts your experience. I will not be trialing my dog myself because he's competing against the same top trainer and handler that you paid to title your dog. As I said before, this is a National event, he deserves better than me. It's about the dog.

Then, IMO, you are as much lacking in "courage" as the dogs with high placements in San Jose. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Frankly, when I got my dogs back from titling with Heidi, I spent many months--retraining them both to work for me from the ground level up--so that they both showed spirit, absolute obedience, and drive containment. She will be the first to admit that my dogs work far better for me than they did while they were with her. I've also volunteered my boys at numerous regional helper certifications/seminars. So, what if one klutzy helper fell on top of Zeek and left him limping.

So, turn your dog over to a pro (instead of retraining him). I've seen these finished products--with trainers who have absolutely no knowledge about the correct, humane use of the e-collar. Be proud of Ronaldo as he slinks along during his heeling and pops off the sleeve with an electric out (before the helper even locks up), and quickly rocks back on his butt during  the guarding--sitting 2 feet away from the helper (perhaps looking over his shoulder)--never going through the transition phase after the "out".

You do know what the transition phase is, don't you. One of the head SV judges (Hencke? Pia and Chris probably know the name) has described this moment of truth where the judge may discern so much about the dog's drive, calmness, clearheadedness, and overall character--no munching on the sleeve or vocalizing.

Here is an example (taken at a protection seminar) of the transition phase (never mind that the dog is wearing and e-collar--but with no electric out):

 "It would be nice if rather than finger pointing and insulting, US breeders could actually work together, use each others' best dogs like they do in Europe, maybe then our VA dogs could also be German VAs."

Well, yeah, that's the thing, isn't it?  But as the videos showed, how do you know?  This is a huge country and we can't get to see all the dogs, so the SS is SUPPOSED to give you an idea of who's best, right?  You talk to people, watch as many dogs as you can, look at who's producing what, and rely on your freakin' SIEGER SHOW JUDGES to clue you in on the rest.  Then you open up YouTube and see a bunch of dogs who would've gotten NOWHERE at your local club trial and learn that they're the VAs!

A shock?  Yeah, it was a shock.

But hopefully it will do a lot of good - next time we see ads for some of those dogs we'll all be saying, oh yeah, THAT "VA."