2008 USA Sieger Show - Page 1

I'm back from the sieger show and see there's some discussion already about parts of the show. Things have been changing in this country and we see patterns developing. I'll be commenting on a few things I observed.  Here's a partial list:

Judges

Number of VA dogs

Protection work

Imports

Home bred dogs

Sportsmanship

Measurement

Progeny Groups

Universal Sieger

It's a busy weekend for me, so I'll add more later.

 Can't wait to hear more excuses ............................

Dog1's VA male Ronaldo doesn't need any excuses. He comes like a fdamned rieght train, bites full and hard, outs and guards intensely. Moreover, should the sleeve not happen to presented in position for a good bite, only offering a so-so target (it happens occasionally, no matter how good your helper is...) the dog will re-grip quickly, skillfully and powerfully so his mouth is full to the stops.  The harder the helper drives him, the harder he bites. What more do you want?

Its hard to see in my crummy photo below, but thedog has a cross-hairs on the helper in his yes and the words "I hope you're ready for this, pal" in the fore-front of his mind. LOL  That's not his hair standing up, its his MUSCLES providing power for the launch. Jose WAS ready of course. He is an absolutely TOP helper I hope to see in any/every major event, especially on the oh-so-crutial back half.

SS

VA2 & VA6 earned their titles: See their videos. Those dogs were the saving grace in the VA line-up

To clarify, my comment above about hearing "more excuses" is meant in a general sense of the words. It is not directed at the original poster per se, or his dog. I have not seen all the video and in that which I have seen, I do not know the identities of the dogs. Photos show me nothing of the TSB either and that was clearly absent in all but one of the videos I looked at to date.

When we collectively fail to recognize that there is a problem, it will never have even the slightest chance of being rectified. And in this regard, this discussion is no different than the past 10 years or so that I have been involved. We see the results on video of the bite work and it is pathetic in general. Then come the people who want to defend it, and then come those who tell it like it is. But nothing gets changed. It becomes a show vs working line battle. I am not a working line fanatic. I have both and frankly, I love a good dog regardless of bloodlines as long as it can do the work, and has proper temperament, good health and very good to excellent conformation.

I can tell you that if many of these dogs would have competed in events I have seen, they would have been dismissed. I have seen it, and yes, on occasion, as it should have been, it was my dog who was dismissed. I did not make excuses, I tried to figure out what went wrong and fixed it.

That being said, I would love to see more dogs from working lines in this event, but that probably will never happen, for a variety of reasons. But, if we did see them, yes, we would also see some of them do poor work and we would see some with less than desirable conformation. And hopefully, like the SG1 dog in this event, we would see some really nice dogs too.

Frankly, I don't give a flying you know what .... to listen to excuses over and over again. One's perception of the entire scene when deeply involved in that same scene is suspect and like all endeavors, probably not particularly objective. So I don't give much credence to it personally. But to each his own. 

I do find it interesting that someone who suddenly got "religion" for whatever reason would be defending the pathetic work shown in those videos or feel the need to defend a given dog when that dog was not specifically mentioned.

Finally, if I would have suggested in one of my shows that I should measure the height of any dog being shown, our SV judges would have firmly declined saying that was not allowed, nor proper. 

Before I start with my impressions, I'd like to turn the clock back and set the stage of where the US was In General a few years ago. The top placing dogs were imports. Why?, we couldn't breed a good dog here it seemed. If we could we couldn't train it and show it. There were few if any progeny groups and the sieger show was a 'Dog on the day' competition. Let's see who sends what over from Germany to grab a VA spot on Sunday and ship it back to Germany Monday. The US was considered a place for dogs that couldn't make in Germany to be sold. Americans were looking to buy the next sieger and wondering which dog that placed better could pop up at the show. Dogs that didn't out inthe performance test were simply placed at the back of their ratings.

Fast forward to the present and things have changed. I'm hoping some light can be shed on the improvements that are being made and as I go through this process, use Germany and how the dogs are done there as the model. If the SV and the way dogs are done in Germany is not a good model for you. You can stop here and find a breed that suits you better as I assure you the German Shepherd is not the dog for you.

I'll start by setting the stage with the Judges of this years sieger show. For years there have been complaints about judges that do not favor or understand the working lines. They are not even looked at, are dismissed, when can we get a judge that understands both work and show. While we're at it we want judges that are impartial. Ones that don't sell dogs. We also need judges that judge at the world level so the direction of the breed remains the same here as it is in Germany.

Enter Wilfred Scheld and Klaus Gothe. Both have judged in the US are known to be working dog friendly. The UScA has heard the requests and done their best to eliminate the impression that the judges are anything but impartial.

this is getting interesting.  More please!  More!

I'll press on to the number of VA dogs.

Sheesh,,, 10 VA dogs. Isn't that too much? It's half the class for crying out loud. With 50 dogs entered, I can see maybe one or two, but 10??? Really,,, whats going on here. Are the dogs really that good???

Let's break it down. Start by looking at the results a few years ago. VA dogs that were high VA in one show and went middle V in local shows. There was no consistency, there were no progeny groups. It was a dog on the day crap shoot where many of the VA's were shipped in, given VA and shipped out never to father a litter in the US. Then came the bitching about Imports and the need to recognize the efforts of US breeders.

Look at the line up this year. All US based dogs in the VA line up. As the judge was explaining his decision where he placed the VA group, he remarked that both the dog and the progeny groups presented were factors he used in determining the final result.

This is the way things are done in Germany. It's a breed show where the dogs production is of extreme importance. With this type of judging we send a message to other countries; "We have good dogs and can breed good dogs. If you want to drop in and collect a VA spot, you better bring a group with you like Walter did."

With the dollar shrinking and the absence of imported males, we need to become breeders, look around and see what we can do with the top dogs we have here.

Isn't 10 too many?

Well let's see. The US is a big place. We have a few VA's this year in CA. One in CT, NC, VA, IL, TX, etc. In Germany, most all of the VA and High V dogs are accessable to the breeders as Germany's geography is not that big in comparison. If you lived in Kansas and wanted to follow the insight of the SV judges. What would you have to do to breed to a VA male? It seems like the US could use 50 VA dogs in comparison.

What about quality. It's about quality, forget numbers. 10 is too much!

Let's take a vote. who say's 4 is the right number?   I see some hands out there. Let's just say no more than 10 % of the class. OK , how do we do this? There were 7 previous VA dogs in the class at the sieger show. Lottery? Highest bidder? What about any new VA's do we wait until one dies before we replace it?

 Quality you ask? The VA7 male was SG17 and V29 at the sieger show in Germany. There are some excellent dogs in the VA line up this year.

Protection work.

This should be interesting. We all know working line dogs trial and make V scores. Isn't it great how all working lines perform the same day after day. No excuses. The score is the same and the dog is the same from trial to trial.

Wait a minute. I see a working line dog failed a trial. How can that be?

We are fortunate that the breed we have selected is a versatile breed. Just like cars, there's one for everyone. If you need a commuter car that's good on gas,,,,there's one that will do that. If you need to pull a boat. The commuter car is not the right choice. Maybe a pick up or SUV will suit your needs better. I'll never understand why GSD enthusists across the country cannot rejoice in the success of the breed and be thankful we all have cars,,,,errr dogs we like. The car I have suits my needs. I'm sure your car suits your needs. If your car doesn't suit my needs, it doesn't mean you have a bad car and mine's better and because my need for a car is different than yours that your car being in production is taking up factory effort that is messing up cars.

Step back and look where the conformation line dogs were a few years ago. No out, no big deal. Back of the V group. No out today...Game over.

Today's helper work and judging is an evolutionary process. Where do you set the bar each year? What's fair? The UScA organization has many clubs across the country. Does every club have the ability to train a dog to the National level? From some of the opinions posted here, It seems they should. This is the premier National event after all.

So where do all the people that post here on PDB looking for clubs, looking for help, go to get training? Do all clubs offer this training?

Nope.

So as a country we have to set the bar somewhere. Should we set it at a level that exceeds the average training opportunity in the US? This is the question both the WDA and UScA are faced with each year.

What does this mean to 'the breed'? How is the breed impacted? It's simple. You have conformation lines and working lines (cars) Some people breed for conformation, some breed for work, most breed in between. Each has their own breeding goal.

The top dogs are presented each year and if you're concerned enough about 'the breed', you travel to the show and see for yourself. Each dog's protection routine tells a story about the dog, it's training, it's relationship to the handler. The dog's strengths and weaknesses are there for your interpretation. If a dog displays the character you want in your breeding program, super, you have a car, I mean match. If not,,, see if there isn't something there that does. If not, go to another dealer, get a boat, or plane but accept the competition for what it is and be a sport. Grumbling on the internet is not going to fix 'the breed.'  Breeders will fix the breed.