Need Heeling Advise - Page 1

I know there is a ton knowledable people on here and I would like to take advantage of that. LOL. My now 5 year old female was a trained police dog when I got her a a year and a half old. I got her with the intentions of starting schutzhund with her but unfortunatly a couple of things got in the way of me ever trialing her. She got hit by a car which shattered her pelvis so cannot do the one meter jump, so I thought to myself I could still get her BH. However she carries a couple other issues I must deal with. First one was the recall. She has a good recall she always comes but not with much energy she lowers her head and just trots over. I took a clinic with Bernhard Flinks and he showed me how to fix than and the other thing was her heeling. She had zero intensity with her pattern she wasn't looking at me so he showed me how to ge her intensity back , so got that fixed but know the issue is this, she always goes ahead of me, so instead of her shoulder being parallel with my leg it is her hip in that position and her head is twisted around so much she ends up turning around to look at me. I have put her back on leash and have corrected when she serges ahead, but the correction only lasts for a few steps, and as soon as I start taking her off leash she serges ahead again. I have put hours on her correcting this and than she starts to lose her intensity all over again. So it seems like I can only have one of the two either less intensity or correct position not both. What am I doing wrong? She is a Mal so I don't want to give to harsh of correction or she will slouch and resent it.
The people who origially trained her gave good habits as well as bad. Her confidence with protection work is second to none she flows with it in that department. The first time I showed her the dumbell she practically ducked, I though wow what a reaction. I fixed that, now she is confident with the dumbell. Her sad recall is work in progress but it is working. So know it is just her heeling that really needs help. Not sure how to fix that anyone have any ideas.

It has to be completely re-taught.  It will take time because of the dog's age and the fact that you have so many reps that were not correct.  Not easy, but can be done.

What exactly to you recommend? I assume you mean starting from puppy training. If so what do you do with your puppies to begin with? Perhaps I can start from there.

No, I don't mean puppy training.  This is one of the reasons that I don't believe in giving training advice over the internet, or over the phone, or even from reading books.  What I imply may not be what you infer.  I may have a picture in my mind of how I feel an exercise might be done and you may have a completely different perception.

Where are you located? 

I live by Edmonton, Alberta.

Don't know of anyone in that area that could help you.  Basically I think your dog wasn't taught that the word "heel" should mean "keep your head in the pocket of my leg".  No matter what speed I am going, keep your head in this position next to my leg.  It's very difficult to describe without physically being there to show you.  It can be done so yes,,,,,,,I believe you CAN teach and old (older) dog new tricks.

I agree with Phil. The work "heel" or "foos" or whatever you use is not a motion command. It's a position command. When I teach it, any position that is not correct gets a correction. By not correcting the dog even when it's slightly out of position you're teaching the dog that what it is doing is right. Heel does not mean walk beside me. It's okay if her ears are back or whatever at first; she'll get over it. Don't try to be her friend while teaching her something. Be her teacher. Put her on the leash and put her in the proper position. tell her good girl. If she lags, correct her until she's where she's supposed to be and tell her good girl. If she forges, correct her and then praise her when she gets it right. Every time you praise the ears will stand up. do it in short sessions, 10 minutes at a time.

If your goal is to compete, and do it well, use toys first and compulsion later.  With my own dogs that I intend to compete with and win, I use food first to calmly teach a new exercise while in a separate session I am working on play, play and more play.  When I feel I have good consistency, I will bridge the two and enter the toy into the obedience and now I have speed and power.

With a client's dog that does not intend to do ANY sport work, just manners and pet obedience, I will use praise and correction based training.  These owners do not have the time or desire that it takes to "take your time" for training.  They need results fast and don't necessarily care how it looks when it's done.  If you're in a hurry to get it done, by all means, use just correction and praise, you will pass and probably be very correct, but you definitely won't get any style points.

Thanks for the advise, and I have done exactly what "Big Swill" talked about and it just simply hasn't worked. I am a good assertive handler and I have a good knowledge of what I am doing. I have never ever before had a heeling problem like this I haven't been able to fix. I can teach the most chronic puller to heal properly in just a few corrections, this for some reason is different. I guess the biggest thing is because I didn't teach this dog from the beginning she is not responding to my corrections. I think they must have used the shock collar or something fairly extreme on her alot as it seems if I am not extremely hard on her she doesn't respond.  When I am hard on her she responds but to the point of being afraid. I just simply have to start from the begining somewhere along the line. If she is in high drive mode I literally have to scream at the top of my lungs to get her to listen. Her "out" isn't just out it is OOOOUUUUTTTT!!!!!!!!!. It has always been that way since I got her I guess I have to teach her to respond to more gentle tones and corrections. Wow lots of work ahead of me. Thanks for the help guys