by Sunsilver on 05 July 2022 - 16:07
Charlie, that's NOT TRUE! First of all, the sex indicated in the name is from the KENNEL name, not the dog's breeder!
German has 3 words that mean 'the' (definite article) - der (masculine) die (feminine) and das (neuter) All nouns in German have a 'sex' indicated by the definite article. When 'der' is being used in the dative case (indirect object), it becomes 'dem'. The word 'von' means 'from'. It's awkward to say 'von dem' [kennel name] so the two words are combined into 'vom'.
(Footnote: I quit German in my second year, as the grammar was driving me NUTS!!)
With the other articles, this doesn't happen. So, my dog's name is Eska von den [dative plural of 'die'] Roten Vorbergen, which means 'Eska from the Red Hills.'
Star was 'Star of Hope vom (von plus dem) Bayou Land
There are numerous posts on PDB explaining this, and some will do a better job of the explanation than me, because the person posting actually speaks German fluently. However, the 'search' function doesn't seem to be working today!
Anyone who's going to use a German kennel name should research it carefully to make sure they're doing it right. A breeder I know has named his kennel 'Klienberg' meaning 'small mountain'. The correct spelling is 'klein', pronounced 'cline'. The spelling he's chosen would be pronounced 'clean' in German! I'm sure anyone who knows German laughs when they see the kennel name!
(*I've changed the kennel name to avoid embarrassing him.)
by Fantom76 on 06 July 2022 - 13:07
When you are trying to find a dog that has vom, von, van, von der.....etc in the kennel name, just omit that part when you search. Pdb will find the way it is listed in the PDB database.
by charlie319 on 06 July 2022 - 23:07
by Sunsilver on 07 July 2022 - 10:07
Some of the posts in the Leerberg thread are incorrect.
But it would be Jackhammer Vom Grunbirke for a kennel named "Green birch" because that's a feminine noun.
Nope. 'Vom' is von plus 'dem' which is the masculine dative form of 'der'.
If the kennel name was feminie, it woud be either 'von der' (dative singular) or 'von den' (dative plural)
Yes, German grammar is HARD!
by Sunsilver on 07 July 2022 - 11:07
Chris has it correct in this thread:
It depends on the gender of the primary noun in the kennel name. Not the gender of the dog or owners of the kennel.
Von is correct for use with feminine nouns. Vom, which is actually a contraction of von and dem, is correct for use with masculine or neuter nouns.
For example our kennel name is Wildhaus. Haus is the noun. Haus is neuter. Therefore voM Wildhaus is correct and voN Wildhaus would be incorrect grammar.
by Pirschgang on 07 July 2022 - 11:07
Sunsilver, you forgot to mention that in dative plural, you also have to add an -n to the end of the noun being declenched =)
by GSDHeritage on 07 July 2022 - 14:07
Sunsilver, Here is a PDB post I found in a search.
by Sunsilver on 07 July 2022 - 15:07
Thanks, GSDHeritage! Could not get 'search' to work at all the other day!
by Pirschgang on 07 July 2022 - 17:07
e.g. der Fuß (singular, nomitive), die Füße (plural, nomitive)
von dem Fuß (singular, dative) vs. von den Füßen (plural, dative)
Notice the -n added to the end of the noun in the plural dative.
German grammar is fun IMO :D
by charlie319 on 07 July 2022 - 18:07