In your experience & opinion, which is harder and which is easier to breed for? - Page 2

Good point and that is evident. Some lines are more defensive/aggressive and have been developed to be police dogs. Some lines have been developed for SAR, sport, etc.

I think if it was easy to breed GSD with "great working character" then a majority of GSD would have great working character.

I have not found that to be the case.

and just for the record, there are hundreds of events every year in the USA and Canada that the GSD is judged and placed
solely on the basis of some kind of distorted interpretation of a standard. As long as the dog doesn't go berserk trying to escape the approach of the judge, character is not a consideration.

and just for the record, there are hundreds of events every year in the USA and Canada that the GSD is judged and placed
solely on the basis of some kind of distorted interpretation of a standard. As long as the dog doesn't go berserk trying to escape the approach of the judge, character is not a consideration.

Or decide the dress/skirt of the judge is a toy (my fault for not exposing the dog to this beforehand)

 

FWIW, I think it's easier to breed for physical characteristics than character.  And then add in environment, mothering/litter, and training that can destroy or enhance/develop.

Just looking at a litter of pups that are all very similar physically, and will be when they're adults, there can be a variety of temperaments and personalities.

 

 

 

lol GSCat, I was at the national where the judges "billowing" skirt was blamed for several dogs flaking out.

thanks for the memory,
Rik

Some important input from Koos Hassing, owner of Tiekerhook Kennels, and a very experience breeder of working dogs:

Alfred Hahn, from the kennel “vom Busecker Schloss, was very clear. He told me: “Koos, if you want to improve the German Shepherd Dog, and I know that is your goal, then consider this for the future. One can improve the anatomy of the German Shepherd in only a few generations. But to improve, temperament, character, and the necessary working abilities take much much longer. Good males will always be around, so focus on the quality of your brood bitches!”  In my opinion, the pure truth, spoken by a very experienced breeder and Körmeister.

exactly the same as genetics are genetics, for whatever trait,however, how a dog looks is easyer to determine as caracter traits, as caracter traits might look different as they are due to ubringing, shaping, training and people mistaking points in a trail for caracter traits LOL

lol GSCat, I was at the national where the judges "billowing" skirt was blamed for several dogs flaking out.

thanks for the memory,
Rik

You're very welcome.  My dog (actually still a puppy) knew what towels were for and made a logical connection/conclusion.  I'm very thankful she didn't equate the dress/skirt with a tug or reward toy.  And that the judge was experienced, understanding, kind, had a great sense of humor, and knew a lot about GSD and stupid new handlers in the ring.

"I have not found that to be the case"

Rick, maybe that's because lot of people in the breeding do try to create dog "jack of all trade".
as result their output don't fit to anything even half-decently.

How can you you find out if a dog has gained a particular trait/behaviour from upbringing or training?

I think duke said it best when he said both are difficult because both require genes.

that's why so many serious working folks do not put a premium on V rated structure and so many SL people are not producing many dogs capable of LE/MIL or even serious PPD. and there are some breeders who have the knack, not many I know of.

the "jack of all trades" dog was over when the proofing became fake.

jmo,
Rik