The German Sieger Show 2019 - Page 15

Pedigree Database


by Mackenzie on 15 September 2019 - 15:09

All the questions posed in the first post have been answered in the negative. No changes, right down to the readers response with similar comments . I would have liked to have seen a good working dog in the mix.

I am done here but thanks to those who took part in my thread.


Irina Kuznetsova

by Irina Kuznetsova on 15 September 2019 - 16:09

TSB of all males V1-V10 in one video to compare:

V1  1026  Kampus vom Drei Birkenzwinger

V2  1087  Tell v. Ghattas 

V3  1031  Mondo di Casa Palomba 

V4  1023  Thiago von der Piste Trophe

V5  1020  Don di Casa Caputi 

V6  1032  Wacron del Rione Antico 

V7  1069  Falco v. Farhantal 

V8  1123  Negus de Marka 

V9  1116  Max du Val D'Anzin 

V10  1124  Optimus Team Agrigento 


by emoryg on 15 September 2019 - 18:09

Thanks Irina! I am enjoying your videos!

by K9L1 on 15 September 2019 - 19:09

Mackenzie and Old Shatt:
Clearly the majority of these dogs bring no power to the work and their courage , hardness and fight are absent . Why should these dogs 🐕 be considered a desirable GSD to own? I’m not surprised 😮 that many of our GSD folks are slowly migrating to the Ditch x Mals of the KNPV.

by Centurian on 15 September 2019 - 20:09

Mack ...This was a nice thread to have been posted.

Try to underrstand , the posters were trying to make HONEST assessments . This is in no way put onto the dogs. The dogs are what people have selected for. And IMOp the comments are neither negative nor are they postive , they are as the reality presents . The glass half full or empty : That is a stupid question to be asked : because the glas is both half full and half empty and , at the same time, part of the glass is half full and / or half empty . What people see here is the hypocrisy that existsin the Bund' Show . This is an extention of Sch /IPO / IPG ... Heavnes sake ... They don't even know what the hell they even want to call it for crying out loud . They give aort of the Bund' Show a so called " Protection ' performance test . Anyone half way intelligent in the dog world realizes that this is no way near even any kind of protection but rather it merely presents itself as a rough and tough chasing [ predatory ] game . There is absolutely no , no , challenge to the dog- not even a Physical or Psychological Challenge , call it pressure . Nothing that is confronting to the dog.

What would have been better to video and present were the dogs at their Best , their movment i.e. trotting and their stance both of which exhibits and verifies their structure. After all this is a SHOW ... and in reality not a true protection performance demonstration. So why , just why in the world, do they try to pawn it off like some great feature of protection from the dog. Really now , don't you think that is a bit foolish, misleading and hypoctitical ?

Don't get me wrong . As I wrote I have had in my life some of the best GS anywhere , even good enough to compete at Bund show and some of my friends are the Judges at that show !! Some of my friends were very very close to the Martin brothers. But as far as the SL GSs are in current day , and 25 years ago I would have put some of my SL GSs neck to neck with any police canine , they are what they are . The training , we all know that the dog is not about the training , for they do the most minimal training that is needed to get the dog to do that performance task. The sad part is that I had SL GSs at 8 months old perform better than some of those GSs. But for some of the dogs it was the training and again I can't put that onto the dog.

So , Mack a nice thread you made , , but the truth, honesty , and reality is what it is . And that has nothing to do with comments being postive or negative. You can still cover horse poop .... but it is still going to stink ... And that is the crux of the honest commentaries.

by benzi on 15 September 2019 - 20:09

This IS a Conformation Show, and sadly most of the bite work is, well... you can see for yourself. But, I believe most average, repeat, "average," buyers, can not handle a hard, powerful dog, and are not willing to put in the training, dedication and time it takes to train. These buyers are more suited to a show line breeding, they just want a pretty German Shepherd. Breeders should match their puppy's temperament's to the buyers needs. There were some nice working line dogs there, and more power to owners for entering them into the SS...

by Mackenzie on 16 September 2019 - 05:09

Cent - I accept that the posters were trying to make honest assessments, however, if you read again my questions in the first post they have not been addressed. At the end of the day the thread has been hijacked and consumed with the bite work again. The focus should have been on the wider issues posed by the questions. As far as the comments go on the bite work issue they are absolutely correct.

This really is my last comment, many thanks to everyone.


Irina Kuznetsova

by Irina Kuznetsova on 16 September 2019 - 05:09

V11  1070  Kik Crveni Mayestoso 

Hans-Peter Rieker  Aichelberg  D

by apple on 16 September 2019 - 11:09

Your comments reflect a major problem of the breed in that way too many dogs have been bred for pets. That is, unfortunately, what happens when a breed becomes popular. One of the problems I have with the show line people is that they are either in denial or are lying about the show lines. A number of years ago I spoke to a well know West German show line breeder in the states and he told me about a great show line dog he had seriously tested for working ability and eventually sold the dog to the actor Robert Wagner for $250, 000.  That tells you something.  I doubt Robert Wagner had much knowledge on what made a good dog, but could easily afford the price.  I believe the boxer George Foreman started in the show lines and now I see him on Tiekerhook's webpage, so I'm guessing he finally figured it out.You can't tout the show lines as the premier representative of the breed when they have lost their working ability. And if they have lost their working ability and the breed was founded as a working dog and the founder's motto was "utility and intelligence," the show line breeders are being disingenuous. Von Stephanitz held beauty as a secondary trait and thought a dog was worthless if it even slightly lacked intelligence, temperament and structural efficiency. The show dogs obviously lack significantly in temperament and arguably in structure because their structure has become so extreme they are actually less agile. As for intelligence, the true herding lines were exceptionally intelligent IMO and they are gone. They were a main source of the origin of the breed. I would argue that the overall intelligence of the breed has declined even amongst the working lines because dogs are selected so much for drive and intelligence is not really assessed. That would not be as much as a problem except the influence of schutzhund and how it has changed over the years, has contributed to the selection of  unbalanced drives and nerve issues.

by Gustav on 16 September 2019 - 11:09

Excellent post, Apple. As Cent said, it’s not personal, it’s reality.


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