Sven v Grafental - Page 2

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by ValK on 18 August 2019 - 15:08

I am not a fan and to be honest do not consider the current batch of DDR true working stock.

chance to find dog suitable for work among present stock of DDRish dogs not greater than among western bloodlines. after all both were suited to fit demand of sole market.
due to lower outputs by eastern bloodlines, chances perhaps even lesser.

1. Work dogs and watch dogs being worked. Equally important listen to the dogs being worked. Are they responding from a place of strength or fear ( thin nerves). You can hear it in the voice

to follow this advice, the person must already be well familiar with specifics and have experience in both - work and sport utilization, because majority not only consumers but even breeders consider dog's performance on sport field equaly good to be used in real life events.

today’s DDR dogs are more cosmetic and mellowed

i can add in regard of "cosmetic" -  trend is to over hype aspect of dog's constitution. 
heavy bone and muscular build of the past very often substituted simply by increase of dog's mass. 
sort like in show trend.

 

as for OP question, my gut tells me that there no solid simple answer. 
that dog was used in breeding out of framework  former DDR standard.
his pedigree stated 2300 only registered in here descendants. real number most likely twice as much, which bring suspicion he was mated to everything, still breathes and moves, based on famed name rather than on matching qualities.

aaykay

by aaykay on 05 September 2019 - 12:09

Gustav: "The DDR dogs which were available when the curtain first came down, ( lines to Held, Artus, Zorro, Barutherland, Lord) were much different from the supposed DDR dogs( Sven, Tino, ) of today. The latter dogs were much harder, and had high fight ....."

 

Hi Gustav, quick question on the above.  When you state that the "latter dogs were much harder and had high fight", did you mean Sven and Tino ?  And conversely, does that mean Held, Lord etc were softer and lower fight drive vis-a-vis Sven/Tino ?

From my understanding, Lord, Held etc were superb working dogs with great hardness and strong fight.  Also from my understanding, Sven too was no soft dog.


by apple on 05 September 2019 - 13:09

I think he meant to say former dogs, meaning the earlier dogs were harder with high fight.

by Gustav on 05 September 2019 - 20:09

I meant the former, Thanks Apple! I have owned and bred the former and owned the latter, but they weren’t for me.
aaykay

by aaykay on 06 September 2019 - 07:09

Thanks for clarifying, Apple and Gustav. Yes, that certainly makes sense, even though I still believe, Sven, and his progeny that I've seen, were tough as nails (probably a bit hard-headed and less biddable maybe, and in less experienced hands, a real handful), even though I personally have not tested them extensively.

BlackthornGSD

by BlackthornGSD on 06 September 2019 - 16:09

Sven has become a bottleneck -- that is the biggest reason people post about DDR pedigrees without him.

In my limited experience, Sven was actually a joint improver; although, his HDZW is 85, so that would indicate that he is only moderately so (below 100 scores should indicate the ability to produce better than the breed average). You can get some very hard dogs with some rank drive issues from him, though, especially through the Sven x Sindy bloodlines. I had a litter that was imported in utero that was 2-4(4) on Sven (and Nonne, a full sister). All had good hips and elbows Temperaments were generally sound: some were handler soft, some were very resilient, all were excellent companions (none were sold to IPO-type homes) -- 1 was a mobility service dog, a few worked in rally, obedience, or herding, 1 was an active therapy dog working with her human who was a psychologist at a VA hospital. I had problems with cryptorchid males, and more than half the litter developed autoimmune issues (e.g., lupus) by the time they were 6. The one I kept has had zero health problems other than injuries (and did not produce autoimmune issues--she was bred before her littermates started developing issues), has a very high pain threshold, and is extremely possessive and guardy of her things, her human, and her territory (crate/kennel/yard); not dog aggressive, but she's been an ongoing trouble maker due to her resource guarding and high rank drive.

Here's some information about Sven that I found today that largely agrees with what I've seen: https://www.facebook.com/notes/ddr-german-shepherds/poor-sven-vom-grafental/2523383277671669/ 

 

Christine


 


by Lovemytwain on 06 September 2019 - 18:09

I could be mistaken but this appears to be mainly one person really pushing this sven thing. She seems obsessed with it. I'm in her group and like everyday its brought up. In the other DDR groups I dont see it mentioned much at all. The DDR only group.
BlackthornGSD

by BlackthornGSD on 09 September 2019 - 19:09

She is concerned about the bottleneck factor and is actively working to keep some all-DDR bloodlines that are Sven-free to keep the gene pool as open as possible. I'm glad someone is thinking about it -- but almost by definition, this type of goal is going to be one of the "lone voice in the darkness."

Christine

by maofryan on 09 September 2019 - 22:09

Sven was like his father. Produced with great or terrible nerves.....he is not better nor any worse than many other DDR dogs.

Sarah

by maofryan on 10 September 2019 - 13:09

If you feed a raw diet with bones.....no need to tack. Commercial dog food, there's your problem....my opinion. Sarah


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