I think treat training is cruel. - Page 48

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by Prager on 16 December 2018 - 18:12

Joan, I have not called anybody specifically or in general in this forum ignorant. That is your opinion stemming from an inability to comprehend what I have written. In response to a personal attack from Jj  I have said that I am a disruptor of ignorance and groupthink. While ignorance is not a virtue to strive for, we are all ignorant somewhere. I am ignorant of String theory for example and I am ignorant of how brain surgery is conducted and so on. We all are ignorant of something. There is nothing wrong with being ignorant somewhere, since none of us can know everything.

As far as me beating this topic into the ground goes if that bothers you then do not read it. I have not stopped posting here because every day I am getting phone calls and emails and even live personal comments from people giving me positive input specifically on this thread and are asking questions on this topic privately.  When I ask them why do they not post thieir opinion or their questions on PDB they always(!!!) mention the fear of the wrath of Joan. Look what you are doing just a few posts ago to Hundmutter, who happens to agree with some of my points I have made. I know of members here which stopped posting here because of your personal attacks and thinly or not so thinly veiled insults.

Happy Training.

by apple on 17 December 2018 - 12:12

Again your are equating my comments to positive only, political correctness, etc., which I have repeatedly said is not my philosophy at all. So in the spirit of political incorrectness, I can only conclude that you are intellectually deficient in some way.

Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 17 December 2018 - 13:12

An image

by joanro on 17 December 2018 - 14:12

Geez, pragre, your last post comes straight out of the the alinsky rules for radicals..( accuse those who disagree with you of what you are guilty of and make up lies about them)
Yeah, I'm sure people open right up to you. Not. Why has every one who had a brain stop posting on your forum? Hmm? It's dead, because of the same thing you are doing over here....turn your own house into a chithole and come over here and do the same thing.


by Prager on 17 December 2018 - 17:12

Apple which particular comment are you eluding to?

by apple on 17 December 2018 - 18:12

You made numerous responses to my comments saying they reflect positive only training, PC, negative training is bad, etc. I already said you read something and comment without responding to what the post actually said, hence, intellectual deficit. It is really quite simple. And like when you try to equate the Koehler method with positive reinforcement and marker training. If pup has good food and/or prey drive, lure and reinforce with food/toy (food is much more appropriate for luring), mark and present reinforcer in addition to praise and petting. No need or good reason to use negative reinforcement with a young pup such as leash pressure when the pup hasn't learned the behavior. With negative reinforcement the pup is more learning what to avoid than being motivated to achieve. Pups lacking in food or prey drive will need another approach, but if I am looking for a pup for myself to train, I try to find a breeding that is likely to produce certain traits.


by susie on 17 December 2018 - 19:12


Uncalled for comment

Western Rider Admin

by apple on 18 December 2018 - 13:12

I see Prager has taken my comments here and posted them out of context on his discussion forum, trying to infer I am opposed to using negative reinforcement in teaching behaviors, when my point has been why use negative reinforcement for teaching certain behaviors, like sit and down, when positive reinforcement supports motivating the dog to learn and helps build the handler/dog relationship. I specifically mentioned using negative reinforcement in teaching a service recall using opposition reflex. He also restated his position about how stress facilitates learning. In some situations it does and in some, it interferes with learning. It is not black and white. I don't see how, with his paucity of PR skills, he makes a living in the dog world.

by duke1965 on 18 December 2018 - 15:12

Apple, I see people giving seminairs that cant teach their own dog shit, that is dogworld logics, there is allways someone that knows more, but also allways someone that knows less, some people in USA buy KNPV titled dogs and show off with the work as if they did all the training, and tons of people in USA dont even know what KNPV is, so will be impressed by that

by joanro on 18 December 2018 - 17:12

@ Duke, they gotta get money some way, lol. If they can't dazzle em with brilliance, they baffle em with bull chitt.

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