Sport to LE? Who's done this? - Page 22

Jesse: I have seen some of Dukes vids...and vids from breeders in CR showing what their pups can do...and how they do training sessions....and am always very impressed. Very no nonsense and straight forward training sessions.

That's what I'm talking about. So have I.

 

 

To hear pragre make fun a twelve week old puppy being trained for a sport title for carrying the sleeve, is very telling about his lack of expertise.
I have trained and titled more dogs in one year, than he has his whole lifetime, yet he makes fun of sport training ( he doesn't have experience training any dogs for sport, just watching videos)..... training that pup in the video I posted is not going cause him to loose his civil side just because he gets titled and trained properly for a title. Shows me how little pragre understands about training.

Rik

I'm impressed. Circles can get hard. Dizzy.
It isn't about the pedigree, and I'm not saying all top level dogs can do anything, or that testing isn't needed. You're being as ridiculous as Joan. Nobody said any of those things. I'm just sick of hearing people talk shit about things they have zero experience in , and base their opinion on BS. Someone says that Top sport breeders are breeding only for sport, as if something is lacking. I keep asking for proof. I keep asking what this means, but no answer. Why? Because it is BS.

Vito, instead calling us bullshitters, how about you show us what you have bred and how many police dogs you produce compared to how many podium dogs.

What is rediculous about selection being the difference between sport prospects and police dogs prospects, out of the same litter.
You think there are as many police dogs being bred as sport dogs?

I guess all dogs who score higher than club level, good for any application

don't know where it is but pretty obvious some top level competition and that dog did pass preliminary selection to get in there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4zU1Qxe6_A

if someone is somewhat a serious breeders, he or she obviously have goals which implemented through their breeding programs.
if they don't produce dogs, suitable for LE/military purposes, it's not because they are bad breeders but because such market isn't one, where money can be made. demand for dogs for active lifestyle/sport much higher and breeding program oriented on such demand has less negative remnants in output.

Joan, hard to say about dog in video, too much sleeves over there.
next time tie the dog and leave alone by walking away from dog's sight.
let the decoy without anything in hands and without threatening gestures but confidently and fast approach the dog.
do observe how dog will react, would be willing to engage into confrontation, if so, how (active or passive defense) and where he will place his bite on decoy.

Valk, Not sure if it's just on my end, but I could not get that video to work.

Joan,

Instead of going in circles, answer my questions. I answered yours on page 20. Why do I need to prove anything? I'm not the one making statements. I'm simply asking that you guys prove what you said. I'm also trying my hardest not to be a prick. People made stupid statements and they can't back them up. Can we agree on that?

Joan: “training that pup in the video I posted is not going cause him to loose his civil side just because he gets titled and trained properly for a title.”

No, I agree. A dog will never loose his civil side if it is genetic.

But, aside from that video, being civil is on a sliding scale, from dog to dog. So a mildly civil dog, for what ever reason, what ever his motivation, is overly trained with only a nice cush sleeve, everytime, by trainers that aren’t the best...when switching to LE, and again not trained well...things like in the LE vids we see where dog fails happen are possible. And it is not always fault of the dogs genetics. Often yes, but sometimes no. IMO.

One of the vids Prager posted horrified me:

https://youtu.be/a2_voB8pXFo

We don’t know the whole story. Videos are notorious for not showing things as they really are, but nonetheless.

It looks like this dog was put into a situation without any training and probably not the right genetics for apprehension of perps. Nor perhaps even the correct situation for using a dog. But I leave that call to the LE people.

What really got to me is when the handler picked up the dog by the collar, lifting him up full body length on his hindlegs, and pushed him into the perp to try to get a bite. WTH????

And this is the type of training you might get if a dept. is not funded enough, or has bad, without the knowledge, or too green trainers. Or emotions and adrenaline get the best of the handler. Or, the dept. leaves the training and cost (!) of training to some people not qualified. Dogs get the rap. I hate to think of how they train this dog.

Good or bad genetics aside, We all know that if you force a dog, you will have him resist that particular thing, possibly for the rest of his life. Try forcing a dog physically, with all your might, up rickety stairs or force him to walk on wire mesh, if he balks at first. That dog will never have a relaxed attitude toward that event, or even do it on his free will, ever again, because we all know that dogs forget nothing. 

So, while genetic are  #1, regardless of good pedigree or no pedigree at all, ....training is a very close #2 and can’t be separate. It would have to be a super dog to overcome bad training, regardless of his genetics.

And Joan, you continue to exercise poor reading comprehension. I didn't say dogs that live with families are garbage. I said there are breeder that 99.9% of their dogs go to families because they aren't suitable for anything. There's a big difference there. My dog lives in the house like any other.