Czech/DDR Good VS Bad? - Page 13

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Jessejones

by Jessejones on 25 September 2018 - 21:09

Valk-
Susie is right. I don’t think in the DDR there were many chained-up dogs of mixed breeds on the borders. There were loose running GSDs in some of the no-man’s-land areas between the fences in some areas to the West. But they were well taken care off and kept in kennels when not “working”. And others were used on leash to patrol. Normal police VOPO dogs....And others still were used to track and sniff out civilian government “enemies” whose scents were stored in scent archives.
But perhaps in other east countries it is as you describe. I crossed the border to East Germany many times back then...Driving through the DDR to Berlin. Often crossed through check-point Charlie and spent time in east Berlin.

by joanro on 25 September 2018 - 21:09

Jesse: The reason the DDR government decided to breed with Czech GSDs in the first place, was only because the DDR was a small country, and was throttled off from W. German stock starting around 1945, but really cut-off totally and completely around 1960 with the building of the wall. So the genetic pool was bottlenecking and becoming too narrow in the DDR by the mid 80’s.
At that time, the german breeders were not impressed by the Czech dogs available to them...nor the offspring of the DDR and Czech breeding efforts...and saw it only as a necessary way to get fresh blood into their lines.
And, further, remember that these dogs were considered a government commodity, even though the breeders were private citizens. Meaning that the government of the DDR had to OK each and every breeding with a Czech dog and allow the travel. The breeding could only happen under government approval.
The problem in the DDR also was that the government department that was in charge of the GSD and all breeding, were almost always burocrates that had nothing to do with dogs in real life. They had no german shepherd knowledge, no breeding knowledge, but were put in charge of all things that pertained to the German Shepherd. The breeders and the DDR SV club, had to do what these non-dog people ordered. Creating a real problem for real GSD people and the breed.

Me: that last paragraph is very real, compared to the Hollywood type of stories one reads in so many breeders' websites.
Very interesting information that is not all glittered up.

by ValK on 25 September 2018 - 21:09

The problem in the DDR also was that the government department that was in charge of the GSD and all breeding, were almost always burocrates that had nothing to do with dogs in real life. They had no german shepherd knowledge, no breeding knowledge, but were put in charge of all things that pertained to the German Shepherd.

yeah right.
in opposite to former DDR system all others, like AKC, CKC, SV, etc. employs only volunteers, fanatically devoted to the dogs.

 

by joanro on 25 September 2018 - 21:09

Valk, the difference is that AKC and CKC have nothing to do with what breedings take place...they are only a registry. So the people working n the office are nothing more than paper shufflers.
The ddr was government controlled of the breedings.

Prager

by Prager on 25 September 2018 - 22:09

ValK ( respond to your post on page 11)I will not even dignify your concoction with a point by point response. I have said before here how it was.Anybody can go to that post and read it. I have not much to add to it unless someone has respectful question. You assume waaay too much, and you know what assume means. Right? With your estimates, assumptions and guessing you should rather write fiction novels than to foolishly evaluate dogs which you have never seen.

by ValK on 25 September 2018 - 22:09

Joan
then i would say - build the wall at least around departments, responsible for GSD breed and hire for work in there retired seniors bureaucrats from former DDR :)
i'm all for free market and enterpreneurship but seems some things better to be under harsh regulation and control.
Prager

by Prager on 25 September 2018 - 22:09

The fact also is that after the fall of DDR regime the cohesiveness of the government regulated program was shattered. Same happened in Czech . I was in breeding station Libejovice after the collapse of communism and where there were setups for about 400 dogs there was only one bitch with pups and few patrol dogs.

http://www.alpinek9.com/tours2.html

 e is a typical PS dog from Libejovice in 1983

Foto 1Foto 12

 this was a nurseryFoto 4Foto 1Foto 11Foto 1r emnants of kennels Image result for kotce z Pohranicni straze LibejoviceImage result for kotce z Pohranicni straze Libejovice Symbol of Czech borderpatol carved b into the concrete wall:

Foto 150

There were at least 4 or 5 such stations. I do not care what keyboart experts say here but the truth is that the significant part of all this is that Jiri Novotny who created z Pohranicni straze dogs still keeps the idea and style of these dogs going. That is not true about DDR dogs whose breeding is now nonexistent or scattered at best. 


by joanro on 25 September 2018 - 23:09

Valk: i'm all for free market and enterpreneurship but seems some things better to be under harsh regulation and control.



Better for whom? Problem with your idea of strict government regulation of breeding dogs, is that the government does not stop with just regulating dog breeding...that is why the United States is where people from all over the world want to come live...to get away from government strangle hold of private lives.
Prager

by Prager on 25 September 2018 - 23:09

here since we are talking about Czech border patrol dogs I would like to repost what I have written some time ago. 

Jiri is very proud that he recognized Ingo way before almost any breeders considered him and now 30+years later he is in many working lines and famous dogs like   Tom van't Leefdaalhof and myriad others. 
 Jiri and he told me then just now over the phone selected Gomo because of Ingo. 

 He had dog  Viktor Ederquelle. An imagehttp://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=451140-viktor-von-der-edelquelle
 

Jiri has seen desirable traits in him but while the dog was vigorous and healthy he was too sharp ( easily aggravated and aggressive - on the edge) which Jiri said was OK  or good for LE but not for sport and he desired more total, all around versatile dog.  
Viktor was the son of Ingo and Jiri wanted Ingo and knew that he can get what he needs from Victor and Gome even though they were not what he looked for and have seen in Ingo.  
 Here is what he said about Gomo.
GOMO v. Schieferschloss gomo v Schieferschloss registr.jpgwas imported to border patrol together with BERO Friedersdorfer Flur, WHISKEY v Ritterberg, IWO v.d. Buschecke. All of these dogs came from the HELD v Ritterberg line, and further from  INGO v. Rudingen. GOMO was used at breeding station Libejovice. Where it was expected that he will produce more "elegance" to the line will add thick deep sable pigmentation and temperament in his progeny.  Further, he have believed that we will help to strengthen our health. Gomo was used on females from different bloodlines. It turned out that his offspring improves exterior qualities and black pigmentation and he also improved progeny's health. As far as nature/ temperament is concerned, his offspring were worse than average. Correct temperament was always derivative of the dam.  In order to get good temperament he needed to be bred to tough mentally strong and temperament wise strong females.  
 
 I would like to add that this is a textbook example of how the best breeders breed dogs. There is a vision and they improve from lesser dogs to better dogs.  Even though Gomo and Viktor and others were not perfect but actually were quite flawed he generated from them through dovetailing and compromising and selecting and... what we have now. 
 This is also why when asked which of the dogs he has now he would like to have backed then Jiri will without hesitation say - all of them!
That is to those who worship past dogs or want to use sperm from them.


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