Working to get my dog to get more serious - Page 2

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yogidog

by yogidog on 02 May 2018 - 20:05

By the way with him going off on the decoy what u have done is build expectations so the dog can't control himself. That in itself can be a major problem as the dog grows stronger and móre confident in himself. Make sure u use his obience and self control is on the same level as his bite work

by Juno on 02 May 2018 - 20:05

Thanks Centurion! Truly appreciate your encouraging comments and advise. Funny thing is I shared this video with the original breeder in Denmark who had 2 litters before my dog's parents were imported to the US - and he gave me almost exactly the same advise you gave me - (1) Tie out the dog by himself and (2) and do it at night. I get the equipment piece - minimize its use. As for the training at night comment - I will add that my dog and I go running early in the morning while it is still dark and he has reacted very aggressively towards some people who we have encountered occasionally. Both of them were part of our neighborhood who had decided to do some early morning exercise - we had never seen them. Once my dog realized they were no threat he stopped being aggressive but never took his eyes off them till we were practically out of sight. The next time we saw one of our neighbors he was instantly alert but not aggressive - I was glad to see that behavior in him.

I will certainly take all the great advise and incorporate them appropriately. BTW, I do use the "Paus Auf" command in a suspicious tone of voice

Centurion, I do have a follow up question on your comment " Your dog is ready and in the video he is telling you that he has matured enough , learned to home his skill to be serious" - just want to clarify if you are saying that my dog is ready or was it a general comment? Did not want screw things up.

Thanks again

by Juno on 02 May 2018 - 20:05

Yogi,

Great point on the obedience piece - yes I completely agree with you and don't want a loose cannon. Again the breeder in Denmark had warned me of the exact same thing - as of the 2 litters he had in Denmark they were super strong and 2 males - one was sold to private owner in Germany had gotten too strong for the handler and was returned to him and he had to basically re-train/rehabilitate him with no issues, the second male went to the Swedish Army and went from handler to handler as he was too aggressive and when he turned on a handler was unfortunately put down. I have not seen these tendencies in my dog but will say he can be a handful at times but always obeys me with no issues.

by ValK on 02 May 2018 - 20:05

i'm pretty sure Centurian noticed in dog quite good base, to build on it protection.
i have same impression, seems like should be good dog.
yogidog

by yogidog on 02 May 2018 - 20:05

Juno u also spoke about grips. When I have control in my bite work I all ways find the grips are alot stronger because imo with control u add anticipation with comes out in the bite. So with the control you get a win win.

by Gustav on 02 May 2018 - 21:05

If I see another decoy cracking a whip when there isn’t a need, I’ll scream?🔥

by Juno on 02 May 2018 - 22:05

Thanks for all your comments

by Centurian on 02 May 2018 - 22:05

Juno
I would be misleading you to give a complete evaluation of the dg not having seen him. So I can say some things about him :
He goes forward !!! That is a sign of confidence in his skills and foundation . Willingness. I also see his body that he is relaxed , ears quite erect . He seems to enjoy what he is doing and not stressed ! The fullness and the depth of the bite are also barometers to a dog's readiness. Meaning I like to see a deep , hard , full mouth grip , not because it looks good , but in good foundation the grip is a barometer to a dog's confidence ,his skill , his thoughts and emotions. He seems as though he is ready , however I like personally to see the dog .
What I can tell you , is that with this dog it is really really important not to go to much to fast. Why .... because that is what he tells me he needs .. Listen to his bark .. quality wise and qualitatively wise. In some moments he has good cadence and rhythm . Woof , woof , woof, woof . Like a metered beat . That is a good sign but at a few other moments I see his pitch change higher. So , at this point this dog is not Rambo - but I see a lot of potential still to develop in this dog. What I like in your writing is that he has discernment- don't ruin that !! THAT is very very very important. Some dogs it is a thin line to tip the scale , confident suspicion can with some dogs be turned into a dog is suspicious , yes , but to much to fast causes in some dogs an insecurity type of suspiciousness. Also I would limit his friendliness to everyone ... he can be social but I don't at this time let him think everyone is his best buddy,friend. Because letting him think everyone is his friend is counter to making the dog think that some people are not and that takes away from teaching him to be serious. One exception.. always always always keep him thinking that children are his friend.. ALAWAYS !!! Always keep him socialized to children.

So this is like weight lifting , lighter lbs. but with more reps before you go to heavier weight. What I am at a disadvantage is : that I haven't seen the full dog's temperament and that is the THE key factor. I think I understand it , but I am also prudent enough not to make an assessment at times with 1 video. So I am giving to you my impression from 1 video - and what you write- he does seem to be ready is my impression. He is a nice dog !! So prudence is the better part of valor. What I can tell you is that going a little slower will not cause damage but to much to fast can cause irreparable damage. And this way the dog is not backed down . He does not think he will be defeated physically or psychologically . THIS IS CARDINAL, what he thinks !! . Therefore whatever you do , the dog must always have success. ALWAYS. Therefore the threat becomes larger and more intense little by little with this dog.

So , to illustrate : you are walking and the stranger just comes to the distance to him whereby he alerts. a light threat , gesture , dog responds and AS the dog is responding the stranger runs away . He even vocalizes like a hurt animal running away. You reinforce that with the dog .. Then play with the dog. WHY .. this channels his defensive feeling and thinking into something that will re-set his emotions and this helps the dog to cope ,coping skills , and is in a manner a celebration of sorts. So you practice this scenario different places , times , people. Now we up the ante, same scenario , but instead of reinforcing you have the dog run after the stranger a few steps after the stranger- this will become the reinforcer and reinforces the dog's thoughts : " oh i took acre of tjhis guy'. !!! .. To progress : same scenario , have the dog chase but just about miss the person by 15/20 feet. Now each time you up the ante , you should hear the quality , intensity of the dog on is voice. You understand .. little by little the dog increases his seriousness and at the same time his 'Confidence'. Later you get into the bite with a hidden sleeve sessions .. and so on...

Obedience... keep OB separate from working the dog in the beginning. Enforce yourself but don't NAG the dog . don't be overbearing. Practice OB but keep it upbeat. Now there comes a time where you have to incorporate what we call turn on /turn off. For example , my PP GS someone could come in 10 feet of me with threat, If I told him in a verbal cue 'turn off' , he would be calm , not even a muscle twitch sitting in heel .[ unless I was actually struck then he automatically had the green light to intervene [, all turn offs were automatically by the action of a strike nullified] . So when doing what you do with your dog .. everything has to be in balance.. not to much and not to little.
One word of warning.. once you bring the dog down this path ... the dog is never the same .. and there is not undoing or turning back !! Once you create a serious mind in the dog , a suspicious dog , a dog centered on a person .. it is forever ingrained into his mind. So , trainer beware.... a dog like tis is a weapon and all the responsibility and liability that goes with it. This dog if you go forward is never considered to be , it is not , ' a pet' any more , for the rest of it's life.

by ValK on 03 May 2018 - 00:05

at a few other moments I see his pitch change higher

that's indication of growing frustration.
very common manifestation in association with prey drive impulsiveness.

Jessejones

by Jessejones on 03 May 2018 - 01:05

Change of bark pitch is paramount to recognize dogs emotions.
Was very noticeable in vid.

Great post Centurian.
Yes, once anyone goes down this road, there is no turning back (of working seriously with hidden sleeve, etc...).
It becomes a huge responsibility until the end of the dogs life. People must think very hard on this subject whether they have the duration over years...and can offer the 100% attentiveness to the new dog one is creating...at all times...until the end.

Very nice dog, indeed.



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