Working to get my dog to get more serious - Page 10

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by Centurian on 29 May 2018 - 22:05

Last comment :

A serious dog by nature inherently : I think the majority of the readers and posters with all the jargon understand a dog like this when they see one. We see them in many endeavors . So for those that have or want one then it is up to you how you think that you best interact and teach that dog. Many times we have read that it is OUR responsibility to teach and control the dog .. My personal biased philosophy when I teach dogs , children .. is : what also even as important ,is to put responsibility onto the dog . I did not say primarily the decision making process . I state : responsibility . Soft dog , hard dog, serious dog .. I expect and desire a GS with good mentality [ that is genetically based ] who is ready , willing , able to perform when needed to, and to be in control of themselves. A dog that is serious , no matter how one perceives or defines that " serious , if it cannot take on responsibility and be controlled .. that dog is a detriment to me . For whatever my biased opinion is worth, I share that with you all with no reservations. To each their own , Thank you for reading all my long winded comments 

by Juno on 30 May 2018 - 00:05

Valk, my perception of serious is simple - environmentally neutral, act tough when needed - dial it up as required, and turn it off when threat is gone or told not to and be able to handle different stimuli without shutting down. Also, this does not mean I expect the dog to be fearless - it is OK to be startled to something new but so long as the recovery is fast and he overcomes the situation and he learns from it I am fine with it. Then again, I am no expert and maybe totally off. Just speaking from my observations of the 3 GSDs and 2 other dogs I have had in my life and analyzing their strengths and weaknesses and what I have read and compared to my observations.

Jessejones

by Jessejones on 30 May 2018 - 01:05

He looked at us as if to say "what's next? are we finishing this walk or hanging out here?"

Ha, that is so true!

My dog came back out of the deep woods after chasing those two away, btw, that is in an area on property, hidden by forest that he has never been in...and is out of my line of sight, and I was worried that he may not find his way back, but he is an awesome sniffer and came back right away. He stopped just long enough to pee on all the trees in that original area where those never before seen dogs were and then came back to me, looked around the area from up on the deck...like “any more out there...no? Ok, I’ll take a snooze then” ...and proceeded to take a nap in the sun.
LOL gotta love that. Good luck with your training in your new club and hope to continue to hear how it is going.

Centurion, thank for all your posts. Don’t think you are writing too much. Your posts give good food for thought. I enjoy them very much and hope I understand most of them. I agree with giving the dog some responsibility,

what also even as important ,is to put responsibility onto the dog

which I tried to convey a few topics ago about dogs not being as good now as in the past. That sound dogs can learn to be more in control, to grow into themselves, if we give them a chance to. A bit of controlled autonomy, if that makes sense. That may be the biggest training or trick of all in this day and age of “everything” being overly controlled in many countries.

Duke and Valk, always a pleasure to read as well. Any all that I have not mentioned or missed that have posted too. 

Very true that seriousness is in the eyes of the beholder Valk according to experiences and the dogs we have had. Sounds like you have had your share of serious.

by Rik on 07 June 2018 - 19:06

juno, I didn't read all this thread, just your original post. I wanted to say that Fred Lanting, living in a very remote area with no clubs, trained and titled several GSD on his own. It's 90% tracking and obiedience, and he did most of the bite work himself. you don't have to have a club, you just need to understand and do it.

jmo,
Rik

by Juno on 08 June 2018 - 12:06

Hi Rik,

Unfortunately you give me way too much credit. Fred Lanting is in a different league and I am nowhere near that. When it comes to our team of my dog and I, I am clearly the weaker member. Have found a club and will start our training - work and travel schedule permitting.

by Centurian on 08 June 2018 - 19:06

A passing thought :

Yesterday I watched the movie titled : ' Life of Pi ' . So i was thinking about this thread during the movie and afterwards .
And I thought some questions to pose for discussion for everyone .

1. Do you believe this really happened ?  2. Was that tiger sound / unsound , and did the tiger exhibit / have normal or abnormal aggression . 3. Was that tiger serious ? 4. Did Pi bribe that tiger or did he teach the tiger through using food to communicate to it . [ie train it]. 5. Did that tiger learn self control and to control itself ? 6. Was the outcome based on developing a relationship with the tiger and did Pi reach his goal with the tiger .. to get the tiger to do / or to not do , what he wanted ?

If you believe this story true , then the last two questions : Why should GSs be any different ? And why do we have so much of a time understanding GS in the generality and have so varied opinions ?

 This is what some of my posts were  analgous to.  Grerat movie to view , if you haven't watched it and if you want to train GSs , take the time to see it. 


Would love to hear everyone's thoughts about this .....


by Centurian on 10 June 2018 - 14:06

Interesting , Maybe many people did not see that movie. For those that did not see the movie , the rest of the post does not apply to you and my reply exempts you all. .... Remarkable not one person , not one , had any commentary about that tiger ...

And for those that did see the movie and that regularly post but did not comment and who are proponents that food is a bribe or a reward , just tells me how very little you know about teaching in general , call it training if you will... just tells how little you know about what is good temperament and normalcy or not for many traits , especially aggression . That also tells me how little you actually know about the GS and how little you really understand how animals behave. Outside of cliche words and so called boiler plate ' methods of training ' as , you experienced people lack understanding . That also tells me that you do not fully understand the attributes of a well bred GS as it elates to the notion of seriousness too ... The most important of all and the saddest of all is : .. this tells me how little you understand how GS are so much like ourselves.... And in many ways that we are so much alike how they are ..
The questions that I asked are very easy and fundamental for you so called experience people that think you know the GS. My personal feeling : if you have seen that movie and have no thought or even a comment about that animal [ unless you plain opt not to comment on the thread ] .. then you have no business training dogs , never mind breeding dogs , or buying or selling dogs .
susie

by susie on 10 June 2018 - 19:06

Life of Pi - Blockbuster in 2011....A long time ago

The story is about religion, faith, and hope, not about a tiger...

Book ( bestseller ) and movie contradictual in several parts

The scenes with the tiger are computer animated - at no point the actor and the animals have been at the set together

The tiger almost died in the swimmingpool he was put in for the movie

Discussing the behavior of this tiger would be like discussing the behavior of Lassie...

Once again: This movie ( based on the even better book ) is not about any animal, but about the essence of life.

Off topic - deleted by myself, some things are not worth the effort -

by beetree on 10 June 2018 - 23:06

As interesting as tiger training can be compared to any ferocious dog, the book discussion of “The Life of Pi”’is a great and metaphorical one, should it continue on, in the OT.

Our resident big cat trainer might have something to say about any correlations one way or the other, about the matter of “tiger taming”.

PS... The movie is done so well, but nothing compares to the book.

by ValK on 10 June 2018 - 23:06

Centurian, comparison of tiger to dog is irrelevant. between them millennia of evolution in different environment.
only similarities are - four legs, presence of tail and carnivore nourishment.
dogs been opted for better cooperation with human from generation to generation during many thousand years.
tigers - never. let alone fictional essence of writer imagination and grade of tricks of Hollywood to get max return
on every invested penny :)


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