Shutzhund Requirement? - Page 6

Pedigree Database

Top stud dog , Zorro vom ´La Mirage son
Stud Dog

V4 BSZS 2017 Ulm Ando vom Haus Theobald Stud Serve
Stud Dog

SG9 BSZS 2017 Urso di Casa Caputi available Stud
Stud Dog

susie

by susie on 16 March 2018 - 20:03

ValK, now I am lost.


My post had nothing to do with "hating communism systems" but with real life experience.
I am far away from being an expert for DDR dogs, I asked several questions, but never got an answer, sad, but true.

But what I do know for sure: as soon as the wall fell, the Border Patrol dogs were killed ( SV started a big campain: adopt a Border Patrol dog ) , and nameless breeders out of the former DDR asked for a stud / available brood bitches day after day in our clubs.
I have been there, it's reality, not "hate".

Today there are besides some single breeders almost no DDR line breeders existant any more in my country, it's a shame.

Tell me the reason: did the DDR breeders think the West German dogs are the better dogs, or did they look for the quick buck only?

Jessejones

by Jessejones on 16 March 2018 - 20:03

Valk,
Yes,...and in that vein...the question becomes, ‘can any modern day breed survive for 120 years with intense interbreeding?’ I’m sure breeds of certain horses and even cows are going through the exact same issues. There will always be splitting off into specialties according to market demand. Then that ‘specialty’ will start diminishing because there is no fresh blood.
If there is no testing at all, that will be the for sure end of the GS.
No, I don’t think the SV is doing it correctly...not for many decades...as you can read in my last post. But we can’t just throw up our hands and say “oh well’, or can we? Maybe all things come to an end sometimes. Look at the Chow, one of the oldest breeds on earth. It too is deluged with health issues. The Boxer, cancer galore...the corgi 95% HD...many purebreds are going through this.
Man has always, and will always, want to manipulate nature...it goes good for a while but not forever.


by Centurian on 16 March 2018 - 21:03

Valk , you wrote :
Centurian, all in susie's list looks nice and could be even cool if to some degree would reflect real life practice. unfortunately it's way too far from reality. you and everyone else know it.

Valk , as you read in my post I've talked to WUSV ad SV Judges . My biggest concern for the Gs is that what your wrote .. is more the reality ! That is why I write so much about breeding a worthy GS . What I didn't write in reference to my conversation with the Judges is what they have stated to me , [ regarding trying to change the status quo that is ] : " Centurian , you bring up valid points but ... Shi*** happens and you cannot do anything about it ". End of conversation .

But to repeat , I have seen changes in the evaluating of police dog candidates and some good changes in that respect. The reason being.. simple.. If the candidate dogs for police work don't qualify and pass their testing/ evaluation , which is quite encompassing, then you will not have the contracts, the market , the buyers and what really counts- the money due to deficient dogs . So what I wrote about testing , evaluating and qualifying the dogs [ and I did not go through all the evaluation steps which are really nice ] can be accomplished. BUT .. the big but is what you state  about ' the reality ' of people changing the status quo . IMOp I fear you are right  VAL !!   I don't believe , as much I would love to be wrong , that the SV , USCA [ in USA] will ever change and give over to other forces ,such that they can set the bar. I fear you are right about reality ...

by ValK on 17 March 2018 - 17:03

susie, my remark was about "breeder not even able to decide about the stud he wants to use" which is false. one was free to mate whatever dogs he or she choose. restriction was set only if one or both dogs didn't met set requirements, the offspring won't get registration even if both parents are registered.

Jesse Jones i never been involved in breeding thus cannot claim knowledgeability in this field. nevertheless my logic tells me - yes, that's possible. not only sustain but develop breed in direction of betterment. if you think about what happened 70 years ago. two Germany was established of which East Germany was in disadvantage of isolation from rest of the world, but even having insignifican fraction off past pool of GS dogs (less material for sellection), they did manage not only resurrect breed but develop it to level which did surpassed western (worldwide) pool nearly in all aspects.
everything possible if there are will to acheive.

Centurian i have no objections. the problem only arise from fact that military and law enforcement part of the GSD market is just microscopic niche, perhaps even less than 1% of total market. thus will not have any impact on overall progression (or rather existend regression).
i think in present circumstances solution can be found only if alike minded breeders, beside being member of official clubs, will form some sort of unofficial cooperation with tough rules and criteria in regard of breeding selection. but to be honest, i doubt it is possible in environmental based on monetary competition.

by CritterMama on 17 March 2018 - 20:03

Thank you all so very much for your responses. It was honestly, all very good information, advice, and support. My issue in showing papers was simply because 1: The woman (and her cronies) said I was "claiming" to have worked SAR and had no proof. I publicly posted a few of my FEMA certifications and would have sent pictures of me, in Lima Peru @ an earthquake site. Note: I was a medic for 25 years and still work on the local CERT (Team). 2. After, she said people are FEMA certified, not dogs. UGH! I then sent her the info directly from FEMA citing the contrary. The last straw was her demand for pedigree. She twisted all she had around and it was never enough. Why feed in to her need to be right, albeit in this case...sort of not really. I was done proving things to her. When I noted I had a dog with Panas (Not the dog of the main topic) who was the best sniffer ever, she said not possible. Huh?? Since my one girl's eyes went hinky years ago - her sniffer that was already excellent, became her Spidey sense, so to speak and she outperforms most with excellent sight. She somehow convinced many that I was an idiot because I don't train Shutzhund and basically, I have mutts that aren't worthy of being bred. "Look all - she (Me) says her blind dog can search for things." PS: My dog isn't blind but so what if she was? I know it shouldn't, but it did hurt my feelings as I know my dogs are great, are members of my family, and their sole desire is to make sure they please me.

This initial issue snowballed when she noted how NO breeder would ever charge more for female versus male and breeding rights versus not - and I disagreed, knowing perfectly well I had seen it done many times. She called me out and that's when she and a few of her minions decided to bully me, which by the way, didn't work out to well for her - and it went in to everything that I noted earlier.

Thanks again for the help!

by ValK on 17 March 2018 - 22:03

CritterMama discussion did went way beyond your initial questions but such a life.
in regard of your confrontation with another person... well, when you noticed morons entered discussion, best would be to leave immediately.
other way they will try to drag you down to their level and then will beat you with experience in debility.
all the best to you in achievements of your objectives with your dogs.


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 18 March 2018 - 09:03

Yes, trouble with FB is the miriad comments added in by the uninvolved and uneducated ! I can see why it got to you, CritterMama !
Jessejones

by Jessejones on 18 March 2018 - 18:03

Jesse Jones i never been involved in breeding thus cannot claim knowledgeability in this field. nevertheless my logic tells me - yes, that's possible. not only sustain but develop breed in direction of betterment. if you think about what happened 70 years ago. two Germany was established of which East Germany was in disadvantage of isolation from rest of the world, but even having insignifican fraction off past pool of GS dogs (less material for sellection), they did manage not only resurrect breed but develop it to level which did surpassed western (worldwide) pool nearly in all aspects.
everything possible if there are will to acheive.

Valk,
Yes, very true...a lot of what the DDR did was great. No doubt there. It was done with very careful record keeping and testing of almost all offspring. Which to me, points to some kind of testing being necessary for successful future breeding and keeping high standards of the breed. We just haven’t found the right world-wide formula that is enforceable and not money driven. This is the great difficulty I see.

by ValK on 19 March 2018 - 18:03

Jessejones
there was more than careful book keeping but still system was very simple - weeding out of breeding pool all dogs, which found to be unsuitable, by denying registration of their offspring. that was dead end for those, who would like to multiply GSDs due to love to particular dogs or love for money.
one still might breed, but it would be mutts with no legacy whatever.
any organisation whose well being depends on provided to members paid services, wouldn't never accept such move.
SV by one hand wrote papers with requirements, mimicking DDR but another hand uses to cover eyes on faking tests and softening rules of requirements for dogs to pass.

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