Black Mask Genetics? - Page 2

Pedigree Database

9 month old female black/red Showline from Kucku
Female for sale

Black Show line female for sale
Female for sale

Top stud dog , Zorro vom ´La Mirage son
Stud Dog


by Hundmutter on 25 February 2018 - 18:02

The pictures in your 3 links are all fairly young dogs by the look of them, reinforcing Jenni's point. Actually the middle one, the page from this board, giving the Hyrcania Kennel pedigree, also illustrated what Jenni said, because if you look at the small icon photos of the parents and grandparents, these are mature animals and they do retain dark faces.

by khalirey on 26 February 2018 - 00:02

Hundmutter, Thanks for your input. Sometimes it is really difficult finding quality breeders close by that carry the particular bloodlines you are looking for. I am not afraid to Travel and will in fact be travelling to Turkey the end of June to visit one of the dogs and its kennel. I am in Canada and although I have purchased a nice female here fairly close to home, I am looking for a specific type and quality for a male. I am not a breeder and will likely not breed but I don't want to throw away that option down the road especially if I title my female.

Thanks again for your input.


by Hundmutter on 26 February 2018 - 06:02

Let's get the crystal ball out for a minute and look into the future, OP.  [Bear with me, khalirey, this is addressed to a wider audience than just you.]

IF you do title a female, and IF she is breedworthy, (and IF she suits your male ?) and you do therefore end up with puppies 'For Sale' ...would you prefer:


A) meeting their prospective purchasers, having the oportunity to ask them questions (about their dog knowledge & experience, how they are going to look after the puppy you sell them, be able to make some assessment on whether they are being truthful with you or not; maybe being able to form the sort of relationship that will allow you to get updates on the pup's future). Or

B) just putting the puppy into a crate and on to a truck or plane.  And picking up the dosh.


by Swarnendu on 26 February 2018 - 07:02

Where's the "like" button!!

by Hundmutter on 26 February 2018 - 10:02

Thanks, Swarnendu. PDB gets so many posts where people tell us they are buying a dog of opposite sex to one they already have, ... and 'might' breed, sometime ...and there are so many lurking readers who will take that as a justification for doing exactly that. And next to no thought seems to be given to the wider issues of adding to the GSD puppy-mountain, or to dog breeding ethics in general. I know I sound angry, much of the time.

We used to have a Like button for a while; Oli seems to have decided on the Admins advice that it causes more grief than not, so won't bring it back. Mostly we resort to this method, when we bother:

@Hund   Thumbs Up


by khalirey on 26 February 2018 - 14:02

Hundmutter, you seem to be assuming way too much here. This is not my first rodeo. I am over 60 and have owned dogs for over 25 years. For 13 years my wife and I bred beautiful Labrador retrievers. When be did breed labs we would average 1 - 2 litters a year and every single puppy was registered with the CKC and delivered their new owners in person here at our home. Not one dog was shipped or crated for delivery. Every prospective owner was interviewed and met the mother of their new pup. We were not a show kennel. Our dogs were all X-rayed and cleared before breeding. We always bred to outside certified males. I did own a male but he was neutered and was my pet. I like male dogs. They have a look and personality I prefer.

We got out of the breeding because of other life issues and after not having dogs for a few years decided to buy our first German Shepherd. He was a male and will be turning 11 years in March. A year later we purchased a second GSD. This time a female. She passed away just before Christmas from a cancerous tumor exploding in her stomach. She was 9. We had been to the vet the week before for her annual check up and the vet said she had never seen such a healthy dog at this age. She was gone a week later. We never bred them nor did we have to desire to do so. They are part of our family. Our kids.

No where in this thread did I say that I wanted to breed my future male to my new female. However I can appreciate your concern when it comes to people haphazardly breeding dogs with little or no knowledge about health, structure and inbreeding issues etc. I am not one of them. I like to do my homework.

At this point in my life I feel this could be my last dog. We always have 2 so that my wife and I can go on hikes on the many trail around our home. Our older dog is not able to go any distance because of his age. He does however go everywhere with me because his favourite thing is to go for a drive in the truck.

In all likelihood the chances of me breeding are slim to none. So please, with all due respect, don't turn a simple thread about genetic traits into a 'You shouldn't breed dogs' rant. I appreciate that you mentioned that this was not directed at me but a wider audience. I see exactly where you are coming from. I have had those rants to peoples faces as well.

Thanks again for your input.


by Hundmutter on 26 February 2018 - 18:02

Its all good kahlirey; thank you for that info and for accepting that these things need saying. I now realise these points do not apply to you, and apologise for hi-jacking your thread. But you say you can see where I am coming from - more to the point, I hope you can see where others might have built 2 + 2 = 6 out of your last couple of posts ! And thought "oh thats normal / a good idea, I could do that".


It is often really difficult to get these things across to the mass of readers; starting a separate thred (eg on 'good breeding practices') does not seem to work, for various reasons. Whereas tagging the message in to something else they are reading, so they just can't pass over it, is sometimes the way to go.


by khalirey on 27 February 2018 - 00:02

I completely understand where you are coming from and agree with you whole heartedly. I get very frustrated in my business as well. People see dollar signs before they see anything else.

I have a friend that just bought a pair GSDs. They plan on breeding. When I asked what lines and pedigrees they are from I drew a blank stare. "They're German Shepherds", was their answer. I can guarantee you that they will not have their hips and elbows certified and the female will be bred her first heat cycle. When you try to explain the right and ethical way of doing things you become the bad guy.

Let's face it, we live in a different world now. When we bred labs we didn't have a website. There was no Facebook, Instagram or Snapchat. We couldn't advertise on Craig's list and kijiji. We advertised in the local newspaper when we had a litter. We spoke to people on the phone and made appointments and actually met in person. Remember those days?

I'm very old fashioned when it comes to buying things. I go overboard on research. I like the absolute best I can afford and know what I am buying. Reason being is that when I purchase something good I am satisfied 90% of the time. When I purchase something that is cheap I am dissatisfied 90% of the time.

On that note we are picking up our new puppy on Saturday and I haven't been this excited for a long time. She is a granddaughter of Tyson Fixfrutta and Yoker vom Pendler and Great granddaughter of Vegas. I have already joined a local Schutzhund club and hope to show her myself. I've never done it before but learning new things is exciting as well. Wish me luck!

Take care!


by Hundmutter on 27 February 2018 - 07:02

@ OP:   Thumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs Up   Teeth Smile


Very best of luck with your Training !


by Lunastar on 27 February 2018 - 23:02

Normally German Shepherds don't have that large of a black face mask unless they are a very dark "black sable". That type of extended black masking is more common in Malinois dogs or Dutch Shepherds.

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