Dogs for sale - WHY? - Page 2

Susie, not everyone who keeps all their dogs forever is doing their dogs any great favor. MANY "breeders" are simply hoarders who pretend they love the dogs and can't part with them. Best to look at the conditions of people's dogs and HOW they live before judging someone for keeping OR selling or placing a dog. I have no great regard for those with too many dogs to handle by themselves, or those whose dogs are kept in filth and squalor, or those whose dogs are locked up day and night because they simply cannot do justice to the number of dogs they have but "love" them too much to place them elsewhere.

How about holding dogs back to watch them develop and to sell them as green dogs? Totally valid reason.

Jenni, I do understand you quite well - hoarders are not better.

But honestly, why give away elder brood bitches / no longer used studs only to make space for younger ones?

Is breeding in itself that important for a lot of people? I never understood this, and I guess, I never will.

I don't think there's a single "noteworthy" breeder who has made a large impact on this breed that hasn't had more dogs than what would be considered "normal" by the majority of the world. If the average American home could support 3-4 dogs without it becoming a largely crate/rotate operation...that's no where near enough dogs to make an impact on the breed. A litter or two a year is also not really going to give you any kind of ability to stay objective and hold back/wash out the right dogs. I've seen the theory that you need to keep every dog until it's death force breeders to lower standards and just breed what they have in order to "keep their lines alive" and try to sustain some sort of resemblance of a responsible breeding operation that isn't just importing a new female every time one passes on.

I think there are plenty of people that are proud of producing some of the dogs that we all know which are in almost every pedigree today. I'm sure plenty of breeders have a goal of producing such a dog once in their life and there's no way to do that with just a handful of dogs.

For those of us that are training/traveling on a pretty consistent basis in order to prove our breeding stock...it's almost cruel to have retired dogs that are past the point of traveling and working. Even with a dog trailer and the ability to have 4+ dogs on the road or at training, a dog can have a much better life than sitting in a trailer box or a crate in a car for 6-10 hours a day just for a few minutes of work without a real goal attached to it.

Holding on to retired dogs, and treating breeding stock in the standard acceptable "American pet dog way" doesn't make someone a better breeder of German Shepherd Dogs in any way.

Bav, I know a lot of ( German ) breeders...

Some of the "big players" do have big sized kennels, able to keep 20+ dogs.
Those breeders do have paid kennel helps, paid trainers, paid handlers, and you are not able to see any dog "after" its "career". Those dogs don´t have a good life at all...they are money, not dogs...

On the other hand there are "big players" you won´t be able to find more than 4 or 5 adult dogs at there home ( plus some puppies ), although they are very successful, even for decades, breeding 10 litters/year.
Those breeders work with co-owners, and those co-owners raise, train, title, breed, and keep the dogs.
Retired dogs, in case they are given away, are given away for free to pet homes, not as melk cows for the next back yard breeder.

I am not stupid, I know breeders have to sell dogs - I just wanted to make people aware of all those "ads" popping up on a regular basis - I am not against breeding ( where should I get my next GSD from ? ).

It´s about morals, and it´s about honesty - and the dog world as a whole lacks in morals and in honesty.

Once again:

No breeder will sell a good brood bitch in its prime
No handler/trainer will sell a good working dog in its prime
No exhibitor will sell a good show dog in its prime

This is not my personal opinion, it´s plain truth.
Whenever a dog that was sold is able to become a "star" later on - be it breeding, working, or showing wise, this dog was either sold by accident or in the desperate need of money
( the needle in the hey stick ? ).

It is sad but true that a big part of the reason for breeding, and ending up keeping more dogs than you can do justice to, is because the demand is there. Like it or not, the breed is - and has been for its last century - one which appeals to a LOT of people to own, amd not always for the 'right' reasons. So the GSD is still high among 'most popular' breeds; so there are still many, many people wanting to buy a purebred puppy, not adopt an adult instead, or whatever. Even the best practices of the most well-intentioned hobby breeders (and there are not so many really falling into that category), at even one litter per year, will determine that you keep more than one brood bitch. You don't want to be breeding the same bitch year on year on year. Nor do all stud dogs suit one bitch (and we should be evaluating which couplings bring what to the party, right ?) And if a pup does not sell at 8 weeks, or you think its worth running on for Showing, or you want to train it yourself in IPO, having already done all that with its mother (or both parents, if yours), or you want to put the very basics in but sell it as a 'green' dog to someone you know will take it further ... then you end up with a few more dogs than fit easily into most peoples house and life. Doesn't mean they are keeping a barnful of 50 dogs in the dark in a barn out back.

And wouldn't we ALL rather that the DEMAND is filled by a pup from a happy, well fed, well exercised, well kept but kennelled home, where there may be six or seven other dogs, than from the miller with the dogs from the dark barn ?  I mean, given that there are rather less homes keeping two bitches only, and maybe a dog, where they live indoors.

Posters here have told me I am being 'elitist' for only wanting the 'right' (ie committed and exerienced) people to buy GSDs;

but it is when any old Tom, Dick or Harry is determined to own one of the breed (whether he can keep it in the right way or not) that the demand for the breed rises.  So we leave it only to the 'big' kennels (which ^ mainly still 'kennel' dogs - but can pay multiple staff) to produce stock ??? Or (and) to the puppy farms ?

Once again: Susie said

No breeder will sell a good brood bitch in its prime
No handler/trainer will sell a good working dog in its prime
No exhibitor will sell a good show dog in its prime


Not always true I have seen plenty great dogs in their prime leaving to the US/China or what ever....very simple if people pay crazy money the dog is gone simple is that.Seen handlers/breeders  with a lot of ambition doing this and doing that.  blah blah blah  rich china man come and the dog is  gone.........

I think due to age you tend to think the dog is in it's prime but there's usually some other reason attached to it. The Germans are very good at realizing when they have potential for more money or when it's time to cut ties and sell the dog. I'm pretty sure there is a limit per year to how many studs a male can have in Germany? But that greatly limits the potential for income. There are a handful of dogs right now in Germany that haven't been sold while others have...there are reasons for that. It doesn't take long for the Germans to figure out what is working and what isn't. Who is producing and who isn't. Could the dog still be very nice and above what is available? Absolutely. But susie isn't wrong when stating it's not ever the best dog out there.

Good females are never sold, unless they've got 1 or 2 litters left and the price is really right. When the average price most people are paying for an imported titled brood bitch is $5000-$8000, it's hard to imagine they're selling the best ones when they can make that easily with a littler and double that with a second one. Clearly there is something missing in the bitch as to why she's being sold. It again doesn't mean that it's not a nice dog, but it's not "the best" dog...so American breedings and bloodlines continue to be lesser than the European counterparts.

Breeders who continually rotate the 'used' for the 'new' obviously have missed the greatest aspect of the dog/human relationship....but to those breeders, dogs are nothing but a tool and have no more emotional bond with their dogs than if their ' breeding stock' were 'dry goods' on a shelf. Those breeders have a bond with the almighty dollar to inflate their ego and use dogs as the means to that end. Their dogs would be better off if those breeders traded stocks instead of dogs.

The irony of always 'rotating' for imported adult breeding stock is that those 'breeders' are not breeders but only riding the wave off the coattails of people who put the years and dedication into what they produce.

There is deep bond formed with each dog that I have raised, trained and looked after. Too bad for the 'breeders' who miss out on taking care of a dog till the flame flickers and goes out, that has given it's all in pure devotion....a quality that no other species in the animal kingdom can match.

i keep as many dogs as I can keep happy and healthy

Simple fact is I would not get a new one if I had to displace an old one

   I am fortunate that I have the time and room for them

   My dogs are a big part of my life

 My kids grown I have done plenty in my life,  now I totally enjoy the dogs and enjoy my home

   I very much like being able to have what I have. People are amazed with the fact of these dogs living so well together.

  I just had my trooper friend pick up a puppy for a friend of his, I am their go to shepherd person, be it for police or personal dog I like that too .  he hung out a couple hours this morn ing with me and the dogs he loves my dogs. And I felt real proud when he told me  that is is great to see so many dogs in such great shape Everyone as great as the next he told me .Nice

  I had a couple drive from Fla.to NY to get a pup from me, it s their 3rd and she involved in the shepherd club down there.

   You got to love the breed and I am so thankful for the excellent dogs I have. I am thankful that I know not to much about the ailments of the breed either

Seems I did hit the shepherd jackpot. I have had some real success from dogs I have bred.