Watered Down sport?? - Page 2

That argument could be made for all aspects of obedience, retrieving, tracking....

Nearly every dog born can fetch a stick over a jump and return it to the handler with no formal training, every other kid and their pet does that in the back yard etc.

I think the judging rightly looks for more development than just completing the exercise, jmo.

Vk: Nearly every dog born can fetch a stick over a jump and return it to the handler with no formal training,...

'Nearly every dog born'? Wow.

 

This is my dog; if I threw a stick over the hurdle for her to retrieve...she wouldn't get anywhere near either the hurdle nor the stick. The creek is where it's *at* for her. 

 

There's always exceptions, I thought I set a low a bar as possible.

VK...haven't you learned yet? :p

I am slow.

A formal, focused heel, would be lost in days if not reinforced with either positive reinforcement or compulsion. It’s just as easy to convert to “real work” than a dog who has never learned one. It’s a simple exercise and is one of the first things to go when not reinforced properly. The dogs that have an extremely solid or even OCD focused heel are also easy enough to train a different word to expect a less formal heel, it would take the most beginner of trainers/handlers a few days to do so. I’d be willing to assume that MOST dogs that are sold to the United States start with a foundation of focused heeling because there’s always a chance one of them would turn into a high value sport dog rather than a police dog…I bet that by the time that dog is sent over to the states, it’s already forgotten how to focus heel unless there’s a ball or something shoved into the handler’s arm pit.

It’s also very interesting how we haven’t really gotten a single concrete example of how the sport has been watered down. Sure…we don’t beat dogs as often as they did back in the day, so I guess they don’t take the same amount of “pressure” *cough*beatings*cough* as they did back then. Or the whole “the helper wasn’t a friend back then” yet again the idea that we don’t just sit back and watch a helper beat a dog until it finally reacts in the way we like.

If you want to believe that “back in the day” judges weren’t easy at club trials and dogs that didn’t deserve to pass did…you’re kidding yourself. Lack of internet and video of mediocre dogs is all that it is. Today, even your worst club performances are shared all over facebook because the handlers are proud of their accomplishments (as they should be) and aren’t afraid to show them. And that can get judges in trouble when they pass a dog who’s points on video don’t quite add up. But if you think that’s a “new” development…you’re delusional.

The thing is....if you truly want to use IPO as a breed test and not as a "competition" or a "sport" or as an opportunity to showcase the training, then don't train the focused heel. Dogs pass all the time with regular contact heeling. Will you win a national competition? Nope. But you can still title. No one ever took that away from you. If you want to say it's not about the points, then don't complain when your non-focused heel gets less than the focused one. You'll still pass.

BE, obviously he has not learned that his own dogs in his back yard do not represent 'nearly *every* dog born'....that's presumptuous at best.
Have you ever had experience with any other breed besides gsd? Because it is not an exception that many breeds do not have a propensity to retrieve, let alone jump a hurdle that is easier to go around. His remark shows a lack of understanding that there  are other breeds of dogs, created for needs other than retrieving.

I'm not saying my Anatolian pictured above cant retrieve over a hurdle. She can, but not without 'formal training'.

Also, most everything in ipo, other than wrap around heeling, is something a dog can do naturally. But having the dog perform the behavior at the precise moment the judge asks for it, all takes 'formal training'. Otherwise, little kids that vk knows would be titling their backyard pet in obedience with zero need for 'formal training'.

Ps. The send away would be interesting with his non-'formal trained' pets.

Personally, I think the high level sport has become by far more demanding than it ever used to be.

I think that would only apply in regards to competing for trophies, but not requirements for titling.