Is titling / breed surveying a GSD really useless? - Page 4

"read it again Susie, I say ..."
That´s the reason why I believe that EVERY generations needs to be tested ( the next puppies - otherwise the shy ones will be bred...)

"so we get to your next point,..."
That´s the reason of my post - breeding and selecting without knowledge

"if I buy..."
Makes you a businessman, not a responsible breeder.

Duke, I am talking about training and titling by yourself instead of buying titled dogs, is it that difficult to understand?

 

GSD911, I like to watch breed surveys ( and the people training for it ). In a perfect world ( show rating / IPO title ) it´s not really necessary, but year after year several dogs fail. Those dogs have been able to "survive" a club trial, trained for months, always the same helper, some of them even look pretty good "at home" - but the breed survey most often is on a strange field, with a strange helper...tells a lot about temperament and nerves.
Some people just arrive with their dog on Saturday, let it bite, and everything is okay, others travel to the club (and to the helper) for weeks and still do have problems. It´s similar to the Siegershow bitework.

IPO1 titled, show rated, but not breed surveyed? There always is a reason...

The more tests, the better proof

Bav, your post makes a lot of sense,

think the low number of breedings of American winners also have to do with the reason that foreign dogs have a greater appeal for some reason,

czech malinois breeders go to Germany, holland and Belgium to breed their females, and breeders from those countries come to Czech males to breed

@ suzie, than you should promote HOT males and females, but woud be curious to se what percentage of USA titled breedingmaterial is HOT versus purchased

BW, 'Joan...keep taking shots. If you were actually involved in the breed, you wouldn't have had any issue looking up my dog when I said he got a V conformation rating on a certain weekend. '

Must have hit a nerve, I haven't mentioned you.

'...issues looking up my dog when I said he got a V conformation rating on a certain weekend.'

As tho I have studied, followed every inane post you've made. Are you embarrassed and that's why you cant post a video like multiple members here have asked you to? Promise i wont insult you like you insult me over my videos.

You know, BW, the more you post, the more you show how jealous and bitter you are that you don't have the power to dictate what and how others live.
You bit¢h because people don't train and title their dogs before they breed them...then you insult and bit¢h some more because people breed their HOT gsd...people like you just love to hate and get some sort of sick self satisfaction out of bit¢hing endlessly about people you don't even know and will never get invited to meet.

Hup hup....( btw, i had a hup hup dog, too. ( purchased as a 9 wk old puppy from an American kennel, raised him and trained him in my back yard, titled him myself...much to your chagrin, I'm sure.) 

Entered my HOT hup hup dog in two shows, both International Seiger shows, he placed upper half both times....so does that qualify me as being 'involved in the breed' ? /sarc. Or does only owning one gsd ever, like vk says he is 'involved in the breed'.

And so you don't assume that HOT means something like 'herding instinct' title, I titled BH, and schH on my 'backyard' trained dogs....

 

From my post on page one, to be clear, all training of all my dogs, I did myself.

I find that training dogs for schH is very pedestrian compaired to animals I trained and made my living with .... These, for example:

I don’t care how people live…I don’t care what people breed. But I can take an over all look at the breed in the United States and tell you that the reason people like Duke (no offense) have a business selling European dogs to American trainers is that the breeders here don’t produce good enough dogs. We don’t have a network of proven breeders and dogs. Everyone is claiming their dogs are amazing and doing this or that, but no one is proving it. Short 30 second video clips is all that people can show.

I’ve said this before…the biggest difference between Germany/Europe and the United States is that they have titling requirements before they breed dogs. They might not all end up spectacular, but the average dog coming from Germany is head and shoulders above the average dog coming from the United States. Sure…we have a few dedicated breeders who are producing decent dogs that are working just fine…but even those breeders constantly need to import blood from Europe or have others import studs for them because the dogs produced by their contemporaries in the United States aren’t good enough to breed to. The network isn’t self sustaining…because most people don’t prove what they produce…they just scream and type about how great it is. It doesn’t matter what the individual breeder produces, as a group…we’re failing miserably because there is NO STANDARD!!!

 

If you find training dogs for SchH pedestrian...do it to more than a SchH1 at a club level, then tell me how your training stacks up against other people. BH is not a title. Maybe a little more research into the breed/breed test/sport will teach you that.

 

Hey duke...there's more proof for you about the state of breeding in America. Schutzhund? PSA? SDA? KNPV? Nah...train some horses and huskies and it makes you an expert in all things GSD.

Honestly BE I see no difference in what you say and what dodgy scammers say.


Its all exactly the same words, thoughts and sentences. Not one bit of difference.

That's why I trust only the old proven rigorously credentialed and titled operators acting under public scrutiny and not the ones inventing their own standards at home with their own dog like you are.

________________________________________________________________________


Whatever VK. Whatever. I don't give jackshit about what your opinion is. Scammers don't train their dogs and other peoples dogs.  Every breeder has his own standard. EVERY single one of them. What's your standard, isn't mine. But every breeder has their very own standard they hold their dogs up to. And plenty of them won't breed to titled females because they don't live up to their particular standard.

So how about you go out and kill some more cats, because that seems to be the only standard you have!
 

__________________________________________________________________________________

If you find training dogs for SchH pedestrian...do it to more than a SchH1 at a club level, then tell me how your training stacks up you against other people. BH is not a title. Maybe a little more research into the breed/breed test/sport will teach you that.
________________________________________

I have to agree with BW. SchH is not pedestrian. Maybe when it's done at  a local club level but at the higher level it takes a certain type of dog and a serious amount of work to actually get there and hold your place.

 

 You've convinced me. Training schH is not pedestrian for you people. And BH is a title. Don't believe it? Just look at all the dogs for sale in any country that are 'BH titled', only.

You are talking about 'competing' when you go beyond crappy 'club level' sch title.

Btw, can either of you experts tell us where you get titles on dogs if not at a 'club' ? The 'clubs' I titled my dogs at where clubs I'd never been to, before the trial... They were clubs having a trial on the weekends I wanted to titled my dogs. One trial was about 200 miles away, titled another dog at a trial 250 miles away, titled two dogs (male dog sch 1 and female sch2 ) same day 180 miles away. So pretty sure that doesnt make it the same as your 'home club' you goto every weekend or maybe twice a week if you are dedicated.
Barenfangs, why so defensive? I wasn't addressing you. In fact, I stuck up for you several days ago when vk was ragging on you....guess I judged you wrong.

BW the main reason IMO is that most people breed names,titles and pedigrees first, over quality,

and the good breeders in europe breed quality combinations regardless of what titles or achievements they have, and because they cannot breed untitled dogs for outsiders it might look like they al breed titled stock only,

but also the ones that breed lesser quality and german BYB also breed titled stock only,

 

I wasn't being defensive, Joanro and I wasn't trying to insult you. I said that it may be pedestrian on a local club level, which when you look how many dogs go through, it is. But when you do go up in the levels, National or World Level, there is a reason why it's only ever the same people. Because it's truly not pedestrian.

That being said, maybe we should clarify what you consider as pedestrian. :)

VK always rags on me. He just did it again in this very topic, putting me into the same category as scammers. Poor thing... doesn't know what he's talking about.

^lol...more proof of what American breeding is all about.

Buddy! Friend! I defended you! We were on the same team! You're supposed to defend everything I say and never challenge or question me! That's how this works! I recommend your mediocre dogs...you recommend mine. We all make money and everyone is happy! You're breaking the rules of our network! Don't give away the truth! One for all and all for one! Keep our customers in the dark and we can all make money...don't let them know that there's better out there!

BH is not a title, it's a temperament test that allows you to move on to titling. Just because dumb people fall for dumb marketing doesn't make something true. Look up the rules, FCI, SV, whatever you want.