Is titling / breed surveying a GSD really useless? - Page 22

You mean now I'll have to look at a 40 something second video of some pups of a breed I'm not well familiar with, a herding style I'm not at all familiar with and evaluate a litter to prove my intelligence?

I'd stick with someone like Alf, at least four of them. Where I leave, if I ever were to start herding sheep, it would be somewhere between a crop field and forest.

BTW, our forests also have cats, but my GSDs may not be able to kill them, would probably get killed themselves. And I'm also not allowed to carry a gun to shoot cats.

Our government is not in favour of creating bloodthirsty jihadists..

Getting back to topic and my question...if the gsd was a breed with sound genetics like numerous other breeds are, they would be able to be trained to do jobs without needing to be titled to prove ability. In fact it has been stated by many people with tons of experience that the the titles prove nothing relevant to the work the gsd is being used for world wide.
Reference to byb has been made here frequently, so out of curiosity; swarme, vk and barefang...how many dogs have yall titled, which you deem necessary to distance yourselves from that label?

Only, out of curiosity, VK - you didn´t ask me which puppies I´d choose ( they look damned similar, doesn´t make things easier ), but I believe I found 2 that not only "followed because chasing/running is fun ) but tried to stand in front of the sheep, stopping it, interested in interacting with the sheep itself, not only interested in having fun.
I know nothing about herding, but I like those 2.

But maybe I am totally wrong, and the one that left the corral is Superpuppy trying to herd another sheep back in the corral on it´s own. ( just a joke, sorry )

Did I blame myself now totally?
I am really curios.

Yes, GSDs are being used worldwide mostly as pets, so the titles prove nothing. Getting a dog from a BYB is fine, as long as the dog is a perfect house pet, and doesn't die agonizingly in 6 years due to some inherent diseases.

And, no reason to get personal. No where at least I have claimed to be a something special kind of breeder because I can ride bulls or hee-haw with some mutts.

Of the pups in the pen, I'd pick the black and tan male second from the right off the left ear of the sheep orientated east west while pup had his tail over his back.
And, according to the consensus here, one can be assured all the parents, grand parents and every ancestor in that litter's ped have been titled and breed surveyed as is absolute in order to maintain breedworthyness. /sarc.

I'll respond before the volley of insults from all the nonamericans calling me a byb....of course there are no titles in the ped..no need for them because the breeder has eyes and can evaluate a pup's natural genetic inherited ability and he doesn't need a 'judge' telling the breeder what his dogs are. Plus, the breed has never required titles and breed survey to be bred...its up the the breeder who's goal is to produce herding dogs. No requirement for 'titles' has allowed the excellence in that breed to prevail.

Swarme: 'No where at least I have claimed to be a something special kind of breeder because I can ride bulls or hee-haw with some mutts.'

No one has made that claim. But you are big on passing judgment...so how about answering my question; how many dogs have you titled to separate yourself from being labeled byb? And if you have never titled a dog, at least share with us how many dogs you have trained to do any type of work. And I mean work on a daily basis, consistently, not just set up a fake extraction for a video.

As for 'hee-haw with some mutts', I am pretty sure you would not have the dog smarts to know where to begin with training pups for GEE/Haw commands. But you get 'personnal' with a weak attempt at insulting me over something you could not do if your frail reputation depended on it.

Everyone is missing one important thing here regarding the quality of work possible of the dogs in their selection choices. To select animals from the age of eight weeks to say eight or nine months proves nothing as to their future in their ability to work or not based on pedigree, or, young dog play. Inherited traits can sometimes lie dormant until stimulated by introducing the inherited traits that is sought. One of the main features suggested by susie from the first post is the proper development from training and, be able to recognise the development as to whether the training and ability to work is mainly inherited or other influences by the way the dog develops. Training is so important in bringing out the strengths and weaknesses and then developing what is positive for the working dog. The development depends on the quality of the trainers. Lets face it, everybody that comes to the breed knows nothing of knowing everything about training or realising until they experience that each dog is different regarding how they are trained.

Interesting and amusing is the video of the puppies chasing one sheep. Is this really inherited or because puppies will chase anything that runs away from them until it stops? Is it inherited when the puppies are standing off, or, are they really thinking “is this guy going to hurt me and is it time to get out of Dodge?”. You tell me. The still picture of the dogs in harness proves nothing because it could be just set up for the picture?

The proper training to develop the dogs and thereby improve selection of the dog is too important to be ignored. Sadly, too many people using a multitude of excuses as to why they do not train at all is why so much claptrap and abuse is seen here solely through the lack of knowledge.

Mackenzie

Mac: 'The still picture of the dogs in harness proves nothing because it could be just set up for the picture?' First, Mac, if you take a look at the posture of the dogs, all standing in their place and holding the lines tight...even if that's all they did for the sake of the picture, would require many hours and days of training by itself..

And second, there is no people or anchor keeping the dogs in line, they are doing it because of their excellent training by me. Btw, those are all intact males, and no fighting.

But here's a couple pictures for you, with the dogs untracked. I even taught them to travel  on highway in cities, to 'gee over' to right lane, 'whoa' at stop lights, 'haw over' to get into left turn lane at intersections. Helped promote the shows for tv with video car following and one beside the team.

Working for pay above, recreation between jobs below picture.

 

Joanro, now that you have decided to get personal again...

1. I don't want to discuss my experiences with anyone in PDB. But suffice to say that I don't think it's worth dicussing.

2. Your experiences as a superb trainer doesn't automatically make you a superb breeder. At least from your posts here & elsewhere I don't find you knowledgable enough to look up to for enhancing my knowledge.

3. I don't know why you think I have called you a BYB. All I have said that there is a group of good breeders who don't backup their claims with verifiable third party certificates. And there is a group of BYBs who also do the same. I don't know you enough, so it's up to you to place yourself in whatever group you want.

4. My, or anyone elses, experience as a breeder/trainer has nothing to do with the fact that in absence of any regulation, BYBs are having a field day.

5. Due to previous experiences, I am not going to get into any personal to & fro with you any further.

Oh OK, I get it.
I can back up everything I have said. I have made judgments based on my experience training and making a living with many different species. I have never even *claimed* to be a breeder, 'superb' nor otherwise.
You have made judgments, voiced dictatorial type opinions but you have absolutely nothing to verify or back up any of your statements...all you do is regurgitate what you have heard in order to be accepted into the gsd cult. I call that fraud...all your blabber about titling and you've never even titled a dog...let alone even trained one to title. Yet you pass judgment on others based on titles.
This thred is about titling/breed survey useful or not...it is not about byb as you have tried to make it in your attempt to deflect from your lack of following the very rules you insist on others to follow.
I can understand, now, why you don't want to discuss all titles you never trained for and put on your breeding stock.