Hello all, Newbie to the Pedigree Database Community and reaching out for GSD feedback. - Page 2

There may be "a lot of questions" right now, but it really doesn´t need to be difficult.
There are IPO clubs ( a dog will live in the best case at least 10 years, that said one or two days spent on the highway to visit some clubs are well spent days ), there are dog shows, too ( AKC style and SV style ), and there are breeders...
Try to see as much as possible, think about your lifestyle, your priorities, and your personal preferences - afterwards decide...

In either case I´d go with a breeder who is participating in the events he claims to breed for, and I´d go with a breeder who doesn´t own more dogs than he is able to raise, entertain, and train by himself. Someone who claims to be an "experienced" breeder for x years should be able to show you several generations of self bred dogs that are successful in the traits the breeder promotes ( be it show and/or sport ). Try to see the parents ( maybe the sire / but at least the dam ), puppies most often are the result of their parents.
With some research you will be able to find an American breeder fitting your suits-no real need to import. Almost all bloodlines are present in the USA.

Good luck!

OP, there is a link provided by Beetree halfway down P22 of the current thred on "If you had a magic wand, what would be your ideal GSD ?" that you might find of interest. Its a discussion from 2011 on PDB which covers many issues involved in the whole * import from Europe v. buy Ambred * topic...

My personal recommendation is this: No matter where you live there is probably a kennel or a few kennels for you to visit and talk with breeders of fine German Shepherds whether it is American bred or German bred, really does not matter. Ask breeders questions and ask if they could recommend a kennel club you might be able to join that work their dogs and show their dogs so you can see what that is like and see more types of dogs. I believe there is a list of breeders named in specific locations of the US. YOU definitely want to be able to see your puppy or dog and it's parents if at all possible. Chose the type temperament that will work for you with the puppy/dog and it's parents.

Lastly ask questions about the health of the dogs you are inquiring about. Parentage as well really find out what that breeder has to offer you. Also I recommend you check out your local GSD rescue organization to see how active they are in your area. They if the are legit usually have a wealth of information about local breeders, etc. and possibly you might consider a young adult or a teenager rather than a baby puppy... Just food for thought, and good luck with your search.

Be sure to check back with breeder(s) names on this forum as that can also be a wealth of information on breeders background. I would do that prior to your purchase. good luck NAN

There is another key word that is most important of all (imo) HEALTH.

You mentioned you are in NE Ohio.... we have several excellent breeders and clubs in NE Ohio and even more in surrounding areas. It is an excellent area for the GSD breed (German bloodlines) and SchH/IPO. If you are wanting to get into breeding with your dog, I would suggest that you start visiting some clubs and figuring out what you want to do with your dogs. Buying a puppy and breeding it as a pet is really not a good idea.

[Mackenzie] 5 January 2017 - 10:01

● "K9 enthusiast - I would suggest that you revise your preference in regard to the backline of a dog. A curved or roach back is undesirable in the breed and is contrary to the required backline in the Breed Standard."

Hi, [Mackenzie]. I don't know what you are calling "the Breed Standard" - but it is NOT what the only real Standard of the GSD says.

http://www.fci.be/Nomenclature/Standards/166g01-en.pdf
is the only Standard approved/authorised by conferences of the SV and the WUSV, and it states

The upper line runs from the base of the neck via the high, long withers and via the straight back towards the slightly sloping croup, without visible interruption. ... The croup should be long and slightly sloping (approx 23° to the horizontal)

I have  put ... where bits irrelevant to your claim were, but you should know the whole paragraph almost off by heart. I have emboldened the relevant bits. There is NOTHING there to negate a curved back-line (it is almost impossible for the 5 bones of the canine BACK to bend, for the same reason that we have VERY little flexibility in the parts of our spine that attach to the ribs - we do OUR bending in the 7 bones of the loin aka waist. But those 5 bones of the back ARE required to be STRAIGHT - which does not rule out them being very SLIGHTLY sloped downward towards the rear). So I have deduced that you meant back-LINE or TOP-LINE, or possibly just the LOIN.
The requirement for "without visible interruption" makes it essential that the loin DOES have curve in it. To prove that to yourself, take 3 straws.
😊 Tape the first one to be level or almost level on the door. It represents the dog's back.
😊 Spaced a straw-length away from it, tape a straw at 22½° from horizontal (that is ¼ of a right-angle and easily modelled by taking a sheet of paper and folding it so that what started as the bottom and the size at one corner are lying one above the other - but that's only 45°, so fold the sides of that corner again) to represent the correctly-angled croup.
😖 Now pick up the remaining straw (it represents the loin) and attempt to bridge the gap between the "back" and the "croup" WITHOUT bending the "loin" a little, and WITHOUT leaving a "visible interruption" aka "definite change of angle" at one or both ends of that "loin" straw.

Q.E.D. - the loin shoud curve - but only VERY gently.

I also dislike the inappropriate use of the term "roach". I haven't been able to persuade Canadian artist Linda Shaw that she's wrong, but the words "roach-back" and "roaching" come from the top-line of the FISH known as a roach - NOT from the insects known as cockroaches.
https://www.total-fishing.com/roach/   will show you that most of the curve in a real roach's top-line is UPWARDS to reach a high-point that - in a dog, would be almost above the last false-rib - and has a gentle downward slope after that. There was an older term that more accurately depicts that top-line: "wheel-back".
It's probably 30+ years since I saw a wheel-backed GSD. But I see too many 21st-century so-called GSDs that have a banana-back - hold the stalk of the banana almost level then look at the curve of the fruit and you will see the top-line typical of "German Crouchers" and "banana-backs".


Hi, [K9 Enthusiast].
I'm adding the advice that your FIRST step should be to find a couple of MENTORS - long-established people who are active in the exact same activities that YOU want to be active in. Better still - if they are breeders, many of their BUYERS are also successful in those activities. A highly skilled participant doesn't always have the spare time to be a breeder, but will certainly know which current bloodlines are reliably producing the aspects you have set your heart on (being a fan of richly marked sables, I hope that at least one of your mentors will steer you to litters with at least one parent that is a sable. I hope you are aware that most sables start "biscuit coloured" at the age you buy, but then develop the sable guard hairs starting at about 14 weeks old). A mentor can also accompany you when it comes time to decide that "This pup is not me", then "THIS is the pup that I can raise to be what I crave!" - just in case you are thinking over-optimistically!
The donors of the pics in
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/The_GSD_Source/photos/albums/1844587168
were mostly Yanks (influenced by the washed-out "Rin Tin Tin"s featured on tv there - the original Rin Tin Tin was a dark dog, as you'll see at

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_the_North_Begins ) who chose pale pooches, but you might be amazed at how dark some sables can be - especially the occasional genuine "black"-sable such as Jake who is shown growing up in:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/The_GSD_Source/photos/albums/1844587168
(You will need to subscribe to the group via   the_gsd_source-subscribe@yahoogroups.com , but it is NOT a discussion group so won't flood your Inbox.) BTW - MOST GSDs advertised as "black"-sables arenklt - they are grey-sables, ewquivalent to the blanket-back of tan-point GSDs.

And where is the best place to find possible mentors?

At competitions involving the activities you are interested in! Some will be judging or competing. Some will be studying from the ringside.


😟 I am unlikely to get time to re-visit this thread, so if someone has a query please send it via the pdb personal mail system and INCLUDE your REAL e-address - I detest the clumsiness & unpredictable variability of the CKEditor so almost never respond via pdb mail unless it is from a moderator.

Great article on the original GSD and how far removed the slanted back is from what the German Shepherd was. I won't even consider bring another GSD into my home with a curved back because, to me, that means the dog won't be able to do any real job. It won't be able to do search and rescue, schutzhund training, or even playing with a frisbee in the back yard for an hour or two. Just imagine if the original standard was restored across the board. What a wonderful day that would be. And I know Max von Stephanitz would be a happy man in the afterlife.

http://www.louisdonald.com/the-evolution-of-the-back-of-the-gsd.html