WGWL - Page 4

Evidence for these "known facts"?

 

Why whining about personal attacks?

 

You made derogatory blanket claims and BW called you on it. Quit the victim routine.

Shawni

Friend who currently has Dask ( in US ) says flat out he is nota a pet, cannot be petted or given treats; try to stand there and try to take his food away...he will literally kill you. He will bite his handler and anyone who is not his handler. Person said he also tend to reproduce himself.
Jinopo Cz he is from 5th male bloodline but gets his temperament from sire Carly.

Where in PPD or your claimed LE training is a dog tested for defense? Do tell...

Lucky if the dog gets a live bite at all in its life. Only time the dogs are probably tested is in training...just like sport dogs. Plenty of handlers/helpers will work dogs outside of what the routine is, dogs end up being messed with, especially the good ones that definitely get bored of the routine. I’ve been to enough clubs (probably more than you at this point) and have spoken with more high level sport people (for sure more than you have) and have witnessed plenty of dogs being worked in defense and tested in scenarios you’d never see on the IPO field. If you are a protection dog trainer you’d know that sometimes different things are necessary in order to get the dog to look a certain way for the “final picture” therefore you wouldn’t be making claims that dogs aren’t worked in various drives during their training.

It’s not a fact that people don’t want their dog in defense. It’s a fact that there are few times in an IPO routine that a dog NEEDS to be in defense. Contrary to old fashioned thinking, it’s almost impossible for a helper to “put” a dog in defense during a trial unless the dog is either naturally there or has been trained in a way that makes them go there when they’re presented with the routine picture. Same picture can be easily trained with a dog in prey and in general, the only time someone says something is when they’re trying to prove some stupid point and demean a dog because they either don’t like the handler/trainer or pedigree of the dog and make themselves feel better about the fact that they’re sitting on the sideline or behind their computer and could never actually achieve that level of training themselves.

Success of those people has everything to do with the comments you and people like you make. No one knows your name except the few people that have sent you checks. Few people outside of a few hour drive of you will look to you for training. There are people out there who can fill up seminars with dozens of audit spots on a weekly basis without a problem. I know exactly why people like you make the statements you do, jealousy and insecurity. Nothing to do with the breed or the other things you claim to “care” about.

I don't know much but I've seen a large majority of jinopo dogs and although they're good dogs I wouldn't categorize them as hard , or difficult to handle ( maybe a long time ago ) , the ddr/czech lines maturing isn't a myth , anyone who has owned any or been around them can attest that thats a fact , specially when comparing to WGWL , that as young dogs they're awkward and nervy untill the dog matures. Iam sure that's not always the case but it usually is . And no hard dogs ( possessive over food , animal aggressive , civil , dominant , sharp , not a pushover a real dog ) isnt common at All specially in Gsd due to soft people breeding soft dogs ( disservice to the breed) it's that simple . And everyone thinks they have one but not even close , Hans who do u consider hard ? Which Czech dog ? Gero? He's not hard to me? Ibon? Just confused!!

As to the puppy in question…if you’re looking for WGWL, I’d probably look for Asko linebreedings. There’s also a lot of breeders putting out WGWL mixed with Czech that have shown to produce more aggression. I personally think a lot of it has to do with how you raise the dog and you are definitely pretty likely to get a female that might not be the friendliest.

Hard to point to a single sire or line because in general those dogs aren’t being shown at a very high level or even worked to the point of knowing that they have some of that in them. Too many end up in pet homes where they live out their lives without issue but definitely have that type of temperament.

No please not more Dask mythologising mithuna...mithunagising.

 

Poor dog just wants a home for one time and not be the subject of internet fantasies by wannabes.

What next the legend of Boban again.

BW: Where in PPD or your claimed LE training is a dog tested for defense? Do tell...

 Hans : In today sportism type training of PP dogs same as in sport, defense too is not much in used indeed. In sportism the PP dogs are trained in prey from equipment and then transferred to man and from prey then channeled to defense( sometimes) . Which is illogical and  at best it is not ideal way to train considering that prey is naturally used for hunting and protection is not hunting. Protection is protecting. Thus if the dog is trained protection, then, in my humble opinion, it ought to be trained from defense to prey and from man to equipment.
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BW: Lucky if the dog gets a live bite at all in its life. Only time the dogs are probably tested is in training...just like sport dogs. Plenty of handlers/helpers will work dogs outside of what the routine is, dogs end up being messed with, especially the good ones that definitely get bored of the routine. I’ve been to enough clubs (probably more than you at this point) and have spoken with more high level sport people (for sure more than you have) and have witnessed plenty of dogs being worked in defense and tested in scenarios you’d never see on the IPO field. If you are a protection dog trainer you’d know that sometimes different things are necessary in order to get the dog to look a certain way for the “final picture” therefore you wouldn’t be making claims that dogs aren’t worked in various drives during their training.
 

Hans: That is all peachy-ducky. People train many things . However I have not seen any sport people to train a dog which is in defense drive very often . I would like to see video of such training . I bet you that most challenge the dog negatively while the dog is in prey drive and they call that defense training. The truth is that such training does not put the dog in defense at all and the dog stays in prey drive while resisting a negative pressure Then such trainer claims that the dog was in defense . I would love to see a video of sport dog in any kind of training where such dog is put into defense. Now I am not saying that this does not happen but I am also saying that such is truly very rare.
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BW: It’s not a fact that people don’t want their dog in defense. It’s a fact that there are few times in an IPO routine that a dog NEEDS to be in defense.

 Hans: That is my point !!!! IPO does not challenge the dog in defense drive. That is what I am talking about! As a matter of fact I would actually say that in IPO or rerally in KNPV and PSA there is 0 ( Zero) need for the dog to be in defense. Dog is in prey and his fight drive is also challenged but Defense is a readheaded step child of the sport because in dog in defense does not look as good as when in prey. and that is where the points come from. Thus sport trainers avoid defense drive as devil is avoiding cross.

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BW: Contrary to old fashioned thinking, it’s almost impossible for a helper to “put” a dog in defense during a trial unless the dog is either naturally there or has been trained in a way that makes them go there when they’re presented with the routine picture. Same picture can be easily trained with a dog in prey and in general, the only time someone says something is when they’re trying to prove some stupid point and demean a dog because they either don’t like the handler/trainer or pedigree of the dog and make themselves feel better about the fact that they’re sitting on the sideline or behind their computer and could never actually achieve that level of training themselves.

Hans: id is almost impossible because dogs in sport are not trained in defense and the routine is not conducive for them to be in defense. Thus when the dog goes into defense everybody is disappointed. There is nothing wrong with such concept if you train for points . But responsibility to the breed demands not just points but also that the sport should challenge all aspects of the dog - defense drive included. I will repeat that negative challenge of the dog in prey drive is not testing defense drive. This is not often understood.
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BW: Success of those people has everything to do with the comments you and people like you make. No one knows your name except the few people that have sent you checks. Few people outside of a few hour drive of you will look to you for training. There are people out there who can fill up seminars with dozens of audit spots on a weekly basis without a problem. I know exactly why people like you make the statements you do, jealousy and insecurity. Nothing to do with the breed or the other things you claim to “care” about.
 

 Hans: This is just a psychobabble which you need to get out of your system. I have clients coming here from all over the world > I do not claim to train for sport. I know sport and have trained sport. I am not interested in competition however. I look at dogs as a working partners and not as a sport competitors who are used to generate points. I think it is OK if someone wants to do so and I even defend sport like Schutzhund by saying that while it is not training real civil protection it is developing instincts which are important for the dogs to have EXCEPT defense drive. I wish I would be wrong ....

Shawnicus: I don't know much but I've seen a large majority of jinopo dogs and although they're good dogs I wouldn't categorize them as hard , or difficult to handle ( maybe a long time ago ) , the ddr/czech lines maturing isn't a myth , anyone who has owned any or been around them can attest that thats a fact , specially when comparing to WGWL , that as young dogs they're awkward and nervy untill the dog matures. Iam sure that's not always the case but it usually is . And no hard dogs ( possessive over food , animal aggressive , civil , dominant , sharp , not a pushover a real dog ) isnt common at All specially in Gsd due to soft people breeding soft dogs ( disservice to the breed) it's that simple . And everyone thinks they have one but not even close , Hans who do u consider hard ? Which Czech dog ? Gero? He's not hard to me? Ibon? Just confused!!




Hans :You have seen majority of JINOPO dogs? Wow even I would not be able to say that.
As far as difficult to handle that is not desirable trait of the dog nor indication of such dog being hard. Dog needs to be hard yet easily to handle. I would also like to say that what you are describing is hardness - possessive over food , animal aggressive , civil , dominant , sharp , has hardly anything to do with what hardness is.
Hardness is an characteristic of a dog which is not willing to give up in adverse situation like in protection situation where such dog recognizes that he is in danger yet the dog pushes through with his task. I would also like to say that our dogs are not what you characterizes as hard dogs. What you are describing are undesirable punks often of weak personal characteristics.
I do not understand your sentence:"Which Czech dog ? Gero? He's not hard to me? Ibon? Just confused!!" Confused I get.
All our dogs are hard enough to do any kind of work and be handled by even you if you would get good trainer to guide you. . Gero was gangster dog. Which had other characteristics then being hard. Based on your posts and no I do not know who you are and your posts is all I can go on ,... it is very doubtful that you could handle even 1/10 of a dog like Gero. As Q-man here said:" be careful what you wish for. "

Mithuna:"Jinopo.Cz he is from 5th male bloodline but gets his temperament from sire Carly." But Carly is 5th line. FYI: Hardness and personality of Dask came mainly from his mother Bryta z Ajkinej nadeje in combination with Ingo v Rudingen Ex v Riedstern.  I  hope this helps. 

https://youtu.be/ulBLYVG-yTc

2nd time ever doing any type of bite work. had never been challenged before.

:)

 

Also, hubs for a helper. it's not pretty, but it showed what I wanted.