WGWL - Page 3

Shawnicus,
How satisfied are you with your Jinopo dog and how would you describe him?

"Be Careful What You Wish For"...

You might get it and it not be what you want or can handle...

I think the terms you're using are a bit confusing to the knowledgeable dog person...

There are many downsides to the dog you seem to be describing...You as the owner of any dog are liable for that dog and it's actions...

Tiekerhook Kennels breeds dogs with a lot of the traits you seem to be describing...Nick v Heiligenbosch produced dogs like you're talking about...I had a Nick son and he could be a handful but a very nice dog...

If you're looking for a female with particular traits then I'd be looking for a young adult or adult and not a puppy...this way you can see what you get...

~Bob~

Again thanks for All the input , looking for a female in the near future to breed to one of my males who has similar traits which I personally like in a dog, as far as jinopo dogs go they're ok , I think jinopo now is more geared towards family/sports dogs and lots of natural aggression has been bred out , my bismack dogs are somewhat like that but they're still young and hard to tell as of now but they're more older style , very slow to mature And may even seem nervy due to 80%defense and 20% prey type personality. but will certainly look into tiekerhook.

...With the dog I am talking about at first she wanted to kill everything in sight but I taught her boundaries with good environmental training clear correcting and a lot of other stuff that would take to long to go in to .whit this type of dog there has to be fairness in correction timing has to be right. A dog like this will teach u a lot more in handling and working.than any soft dog imo. People imo that continue to get nailed by there dog are not listening to the dog and should not have this dog because they are not ready. when my female showed me aggression in situation I was bit twice . I then started to understand what she was telling me my timing was off witch made my correction to late witch in turn made it pointless and to her unfair... ---yogidog 

It's nice to read things like this as this is what i experienced with my dog. I use to cuss ever owning and working with him, event tried to give him away a few times early on LOL. Now i am saddened that when its time to get a new dog, i wont find one like this again....

Shawnicus what do you base your opinion on JINOPO/AlpineK9 dogs on? Seems like a hearsay based on lies similar to the BS liek  that all Czech dogs die of cancer by the age of 3 years and other BS mostly promulgated by some unethical  German, Holland and Belgian breeders who are in fierce competition with our Old Style Czech Dogs(OSCD) and want to unfairly demage OSCD.  . .... BTW Bismack dogs are not Czech but mostly Romanian dogs.
FYI another myth generated from lack of understanding nature of these dogs and their ballance of Prey x Defense.  which leads to misunderstanding and subsequently to  incorrect conclusion that The Old Style Czech dogs are slow to mature. That is another BS promulgated by mostly Malinois trainers and prey based sport dogs trainers and breeders. The fact is that people like you who want more serious protectiveness in a dog do not realize that such is based on sound defense drive. Defense drive then takes longer to kick in then prey,... usually between 1 and 2 years even though there may be traces of it obvious as soon as at 6 or 8 weeks. Then when these sportists and prey based trainers get hands on defense based dogs the dog does not respond to they misplaced prey overtures to these more defense driven dogs and they then cover their lack of knowledge of training of defense based dogs by claim that they are slow maturing thus completely misrepresenting such dogs. The fact is prey stars at 5 weeks +/- and up defense starts much later. That is a fact of nature and does not indicate slow maturing of such dogs.

 Another issue then is that majority of  sport trainers consider even a sound  defense drive a fault but that is another issue. 

LOL cutaway your sadeness is premature. There are many breeders of sound, hard dogs out there. Just do not look for them in back   yard of Myrna across the street. Vote with your dollar. That is what will safe the breed. Demand for sound ballanced , versatile dogs by broad spectrum of buyers.  

Shawnicus: And may even seem nervy due to 80%defense and 20% prey type personality.

Hans: Please define "Nervy" in this context.

I don't think a majority of sport trainers consider a sound defense drive a fault. I think it makes your argument much stronger when you don't throw in falsities just to take a jab at successful trainers that choose to do something different than you do. Their level of success speaks for itself and they don't need to take jabs at people like yourself. Many of them don't need made up terms and theories in order to try to make themselves look smart or accomplished. Their training has been proven on the field time and time again. Not everyone has a goal of selling police dogs and PPD dogs and make a living off of things outside of dogs but chose to do the sport as a hobby. Others have found a niche and do make money (probably more than you do) by helping others train in the sport because those other people also have jobs that don't require them to be LE trainers or handlers.

Want to have a decent discussion about sport/"real work" then don't over generalize and make up lies just to make your point. You can easily make good points about the types of dogs you breed and peddle without having to demean others and what they value. The worst sales tactic you can have is when instead of raising good points about your product, and why yours is better, all you do is bash the competition.

Prager makes up words and theories to get people to defend against his made up words and theories......sad.

Bavarian Wagon, if you have anything of substance to say then you do not need to attack me personally to get your point across. I will say that I am not against sport I haver competed and learned from sport much. Sport has it's place. But sport also has it's responsibility to the breed. That is what SchH used to be,..... test of dogs abilities to work and then it DEGENERATED into competition. When you say : "I don't think a majority of sport trainers consider a sound defense drive a fault."  you are denying known facts. Most sport trainers consider when their dog swings into defense   a major fault and problem. You may not be one of them but that does not change facts. On top of it the sports like Schutzhund and PSA  and even KNPV  for example do  not test dogs for defense. Please show me where in sport of IPO we see test for  defense. Show me where in any main stream sport  the dogs are tested for defense.    I will also add that  success of people in sport which you are mantioning has little to do with what we are talking about.