Puppy aggression - Page 4

My Patrol dog just passed away. He was imported Green from Hungary at over 2 years old. They want a freaky dog on the bite and for the ball - over the top - barely controllable drive - in order to sell for big $$ over here. He was all of that (at first), but much more - more sensible than most dogs you'll see. Entirely neutral to people, dogs, domestic and wild animals, environments. Neutral, until, and only when time called for him not to be, ie, tracking a decoy with a big play session at the end, tracking a bad guy and wanting to eat his ass when / and only when (which was rarely) the suspect meant us real harm, letting children pet him in schools, outing a sleeve from 75 yards away - in a building - out of my sight - not because he was shocked or choked off - but because the reward coming back to me was even more fun, playfully getting along with pups / young dogs, training or exercising in tandem with other dogs, training detector with a bitch in full bloom in the room and never batting an eye towards her, NEVER being aggressive towards other dogs, even when they attacked him - rather he would offer them a stiff shoulder and steady stance - look at me like - "really" I'd destroy him dad? - get that pest off me.  NEVER, not once, barking or whining in the car, even when catching people tapping on the glass, peering in trying to look at him. I was the center of his world - PERIOD.

THAT is a confident, clear headed dog. KNOWING he truly was the baddest ass on the block, but rarely ever having to prove it. What, IMO a PATROL DOG should be.  Most of what he was - he was at conception - still - poor handling could have ended up with a different result.

SHAWNICUS your idea of a Patrol dog DOES align with a lot of LE's wants. I've also seen these same kinds of dogs bite the shit out of their handlers, friendly's, attack other LE Canines, Pet dogs, etc. I'm biased, but that's not my idea of a Patrol Dog.
 

Sounds like another situation where the owner has an idea in their head of what makes a badass dog and they see what they want to see. "Over the top dominant" with littermates is typically *bully* behavior, ie, insecurity, not truly strong behavior (the truly strong are not the ones picking at everyone...) and never one I would sell as a patrol prospect. They tend to crumble under extreme stress. Of course, most of the people who want and create these dogs via lack of proper training, handling, and control won't ever see that in their fantasy world.

I have news for Shawnicus, Mithuna, et al. You can make MANY dogs act like that if you handle them improperly. The best defense is a good offense to an insecure dog (or person), and when paired with a human who hasn't a clue, these dogs rise to extreme levels of undesirable behavior, and their handlers continue to brag on how tough they are, when really, they are simply normal dogs, or insecure, perhaps unbalanced, handled by someone inexperienced who elicits these responses from the dog and the cycle continues.

What purpose does excessive aggression toward other animals at 4 months serve? Perhaps this phenomenon of dogs of these lines is not so much about the genetics as it's about the type buyer the salesman is attracting and their respective handling skills.

As to whether a correction would "hurt his drive" or whatever...I say it depends on why he acts like that, truly. A correction, ie, some direction as to what is and is not tolerated and appropriate might give him some security and if he were less insecure, he may not display that behavior which you seem to be calling "fight drive." To most people that would be a big relief but in this case, methinks not. :P In all seriousness, if you do not correct/mold/direct his behavior, you are doing him a HUGE disservice. He will most assuredly pay for your mistakes later in life.

Best wishes.

Honestly to each his own , I prefer hard , hard dog and handler agression is part of it .. If a dog is approachable then I don't care for it .. To me a working dog is a tool .. If I wanted a pet or something stable then I'd get a lab

It's "to each his own."

I don't think you even know what stable means, Mithuna. I mean Shawnicus. None of those terms are mutually exclusive.

Iam
Not mithuna

To be frank, if you think that this is what hardness is, than you have absolutely no idea what true hardness, fight, and aggression is.

This thread is getting ridiculous. Handler aggression is more likely the sign of a shitty trainer than indicative of anything else (ie. unclear instruction, unrealistic expectations, and unfair corrections). Having the goal of being a good team is important no matter what you are training your dog in.

If this dog cannot handle a correction, then it's not worth it. Period.

As both handler/owner of my dogs, I will not tolerate aggression of any sort directed at me from my dog, especially for giving a correction for unwanted behavior.
What in the hell type of corrections are being given, to what behaviors.
Training your dog is teaching your dog. Torture should not be involved.
My dogs will not accept correction from anyone, other then myself. Even if members of my family try to give them an order, they look at them like, 'yeah right Buddy, whatever', and go about their business.
My dogs live with just me. I think far too many involved with this breed of dog, does not truly know the nature of them.
These dogs strive to please their people. If you have a well bred dog, that is treated like more than just your 'property', that was started out properly, meaning well fed, ample exercise and plenty of socialization and exposure to various scenarios, you have a dog that is eager to 'work with you'.
You are supposed to be a 'team'.
Imagine if the Olympic team members were yoking each others collars or sending shock waves thru the water for what one thought was a shitty dive, don t think they would work too well together would they.
Far to many see their dog as just a dog, a money making object.

Oops, I forgot...
Many here think that a German Shepherd should only be kept for working purposes or money making ventures (sport/show).
A well bred German Shepherd raised with children is The Very Best Personal Protection ANY child could ever have.
It is a natural instinct for the breed. I see it all the time. The beauty of it is, there is no extensive or costly training needed either.

This is where genetics vs environmental factors clash.. your dog can't protect you if it is locked in a kennel across the yard.