What is the best and least damaging heartworm preventive for dogs? - Page 3

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bubbabooboo

by bubbabooboo on 28 June 2016 - 15:06

Zenit2010 ... Animals and mammals deal with the heart worm larval stages in part through immune system reactions. Cats get heart worms at a much lower rate than dogs but when they do they present differently than in dogs as they don't necessarily go to the heart. Humans control heart worms through immune function but when we do get heart worm infections the larval stage usually migrates to the lungs or other organs .. not the heart .. and is encapsulated and may show up on x-rays as a dark spot much like a tumor. In many mammals the larval stage of the heart worm is unable to develop to the adult stage due to immune system controls. It is extremely likely that over vaccination, inbreeding, environmental toxins, and poor quality food have compromised our domesticated canines immune systems making the domesticated canine more susceptible to heart worms than the wild relatives. It is no secret that stress, poor diet, and disease make mammals more susceptible to pathogens and pests.

Dragonfry ... Anyone living below the latitude of I-10 should be concerned about heart worm year round but that is not the case with 90+ % of dog owners who are getting bombarded with false claims that year round heart worm controls are needed. Apparently veterinarians do a good job of scare tactics for their employees and clients. I remember going into a veterinarians office for some hip x-rays with snow on the ground outside and being asked if I needed heart worm poisons. Freezing temperatures have nothing to do with suppressing heart worms .. minimum daily temps below 57 degrees F stop the development of the larval stage of the heart worm in the female mosquitoes gut. Once that is stopped either the larvae die or the mosquito dies before she can ever develop the larvae to the L3 growth stage which is the growth stage that can infect dogs. The mosquito does not cause heart worm infections unless that particular mosquito is infected by biting an infected dog or wild vector that has L1 heart worm in it's blood, the minimum temperatures remain at 57 degrees F for at least 2 weeks while the L1 larvae develop to L3, and the mosquito lives for two weeks or more after biting the infected host, and then finds a susceptible animal to bite and infect which then is unable to kill off the L3 larvae as it matures and migrates to the blood stream. The L3 infected animal can kill off the heart worm larvae by chemical means ( heart worm poisons ) or through immune function. Many animals including humans kill off heart worms through immune function alone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirofilaria_immitis

Quote from above reference .... " In regions where the temperature is consistently above 14 °C (57 °F) year-round, a continuous prevention schedule is recommended. "

http://i10crash.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/interstate-10-map2.gif


by anawd on 29 June 2016 - 00:06

After working at two different vet clinics and a humane society that also Heartworm tests, I will never not give my dogs Heartworm prevention. In my mind Heartworm prevention is "Heartworm DISEASE prevention". I'm very aware how it works and the life cycles. It sure seems like it would be difficult for a dog to be infected, but from what I see in actuality it is not. When you see dog after dog come in coughing, barely able to get enough air, fluid buildup, heart trouble, etc., you take note. That's all I'm saying. Whether you want to put your dog on prevention year round or not, or at all, is entirely up to you. I'm simply sharing my experience and what I've seen.

I can't say anything about wild canids. When I do see them they certainly don't look healthy. I also can't imagine that they have very long lives. But I really don't have much first hand knowledge of that. I DO feel like I have a lot of first hand knowledge on Heartworm disease, however.

by hexe on 29 June 2016 - 04:06

booboo, you lose any credibility, IMO, when you persist in referring to the preventatives as 'poisons'. So, do you use the natural heartworm preventative, then?

Because that's poisonous to dogs as well. Much more so than any of the licensed products, which are administered at a dose far, far below what would be a lethal dose to the animal.

I've cared for enough heartworm-infected dogs when I was still in the clinic to see for myself how hard the treatment process is on those animals, in addition to the debilitation the infestation itself causes to them.


bubbabooboo

by bubbabooboo on 29 June 2016 - 12:06

Hexe .. you don't have a clue what you are talking about. When I treat a field of cotton for boll worms eating on the young bolls that is a poison ( insecticide .. ie insect killer ) killing the larval form of the pest that has infested the field. When a dog is fed or has a skin applied systemic pesticide that kills the immature heart worm larvae as they penetrate and eat on the skin of my dog that is also a poison or insecticide. Heart worm treatments do not prevent infestation or feeding by the pest ... the poisons kill the larval insect upon infestation and feeding .. just like the poison used to kill the larval form of the boll worm are killed by the insecticide. Deet is a preventative, some ovicides ( egg killers ) are preventative, but insecticides are not preventative by definition ( insect killer is an insecticide ). Heart worm treatments are poisons and just because veterinarians and pesticide companies want to change the truth to fit their lies and deceit does not change the truth.

bubbabooboo

by bubbabooboo on 29 June 2016 - 12:06

Integrated Pest Management ( IPM ) has been around for 50 years + and the cardinal rule of IPM is don't treat on a fixed schedule with the same product unless you want resistance and don't treat when the pest is not present. The current heart worm sales and lies propaganda as sold by vets and heart worm treatment makers goes against all of the professional entomological and scientific training of the last 50 years and that is currently practiced by professional entomologists today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_pest_management

Quote from above ... " In the United States, IPM was formulated into national policy in February 1972 when President Richard Nixon directed federal agencies to take steps to advance the application of IPM in all relevant sectors. In 1979, President Jimmy Carter established an interagency IPM Coordinating Committee to ensure development and implementation of IPM practices. "


by hexe on 30 June 2016 - 04:06

Yah, okay, booboo.

Sola dosis facit venenum

 


bubbabooboo

by bubbabooboo on 30 June 2016 - 16:06

I have never advocated for not using heart worm treatments to kill young heart worm larvae in dogs and prevent them from migrating to the bloodstream and thereafter molting to the very harmful adult stage. I do and have advocated that using these poisons on a scientific as needed basis which includes using them only when infection is possible ( in most of the USA that is less than 6 months per year ) and at rates and timings least likely to cause sickness or death for the dogs being treated with these systemic insecticides. Many and most veterinarians have followed the money and the corporate pesticide companies propaganda that 12 month per year heart worm poisons are needed to protect your dog from becoming infested with heart worms. This is untrue and is motivated by the huge profits, office visits, and sales of additional products and services that veterinarians reap from these products and the required office visits to obtain prescription products. Year round heart worm systemic pesticides for dogs are only needed in areas with CONSISTENT daily minimum temperatures of 57 degrees F or greater.

And for Hexe a response in Latin and for those advocating for year round heart worm poisons in areas that do not need them ..

Contra principia negantem non est disputandum ; literally, "Against one who denies the principles, there can be no debate") is a principle of logic and law: in order to debate reasonably about a disagreement, there must be agreement about the principles or facts by which to judge the arguments.


TIG

by TIG on 30 June 2016 - 23:06

In general I'm in agreement with boo to the effect of being responsible and using these products in an intelligent way. Understand the cycles involved. For anyone living where there is significant temperature cycling during the year - If the dog has been treated during the active season, the immature larvae have been killed and there is NO reason to treat during colder months when there is no chance of infection (have had a number of vets agree with me on this for my dogs). In addition, contact your state entomologist and find out if your area actually has the species of mosquito that transmits heartworm. If your area does not AND you do not travel the dog outside of that area, there is no need to treat. Note to the vet techs - that doesn't mean you won't still see cases because people forget and travel outside the area as in my area people go hiking in the mountains with their dogs and can come home with an infected dog or others move in from infected areas. Which brings us back to understanding the parameters involved and adjusting your behavior accordingly - oh my gad being responsible.

It is the antithesis of being responsible to treat year round IF there is no need since 1. you are exposing your dog and those in its environment to unnecessary ( at that moment in time) toxic products and 2. you are encouraging resistance responses in the target species. Back in the days of one pill a day in New England we treated April to October. Why would that schedule not still be good given the biology of the species? Why in that and similar areas is there a need to treat year around?

Katrina did in fact play a hand in the spread of resistant or selected tolerant heartworms because of the diaspora of "Katrina" animals. Most stayed within the southern states - thus I'm sure the explosion talked about above but they literally went everywhere. I'm old enough to remember when heartworm was a southern problem but then more universal travel and sporting and show dogs gradually spread it throughout the land.

The Katrina diaspora behooves us all to be more responsible since it likely spread resistant/tolerate heartworms in a new second invasion wave thru the country. One of my friends fostered a Katrina GSD from the Marin Humane Society (which is good on self promotion and not much else). The dog was loaded with heartworms. The Humane society REFUSED to provide treatment - bringing in and intending to harbor an active infection to an area with a very low incidence of infection. My friend got a vet to volunteer the treatment - for the good of the dog and for the safety of the other dogs in the area. Sad to say this girl was not claimed and when the agreed ending date of the foster was over - Marin demanded her back and made the arrogant uninformed decision because of her need to be placed as an only dog not to bother and just put her down like a piece of trash (of course not telling my friend this until after the dog was returned to them)

TIG

by TIG on 01 July 2016 - 01:07

BTW some old time vet wisdom from my very knowledgeable vet back East. When having your dog heartworm tested best time is late afternoon, early evening and give a small snack like a large dog cookie about half hour b4. The combination of time of day when the microfilaria are more active and the food in the bloodstream which draws them out makes for a very reliable test result.

Don't know if he still does this but in the Spring he would run heartworm testing clinics two evenings a week a week with 5 min appt for the blood draw. Run in run out AND as a result he charged a very very low fee- basically a small draw fee - no office call fee, no $50-75 just for the test which is the going rate out here. This was a breeder vet who also raised horses. Understood multiple dog/animal household and as long as you took good care of your animals he gave significant discounts to those of us with multiples.

bubbabooboo

by bubbabooboo on 01 July 2016 - 05:07

The heart worm larval stage ( microfilaria ) coordinate their daily activities in the infected host animal to maximize the possibility of being imbibed by the intermediate host or vector ( the mosquito ) so they are most active in late afternoon early evening when mosquitoes are most actively feeding. The veterinarian mentioned by TIG knew his or her stuff. It is also worth mentioning that the L1 heart worm in the mosquito also causes damage to the mosquito and weaken the insect as they infest what is essentially the gut and kidney of the mosquito and they burrow through the insect's body to the mouth parts before being passed to another host animal as an L3. It is also worth mentioning that cattle are one of the mosquito's favorite targets for a blood meal. Cattle are also heavily treated with the same products with the same chemistry and mode of action as the heart worm pesticides used in dogs but at much higher rates ( and much lower prices ) than in dogs. It is almost a certainty that the resistance to these pesticides by heart worms was in large part selected for by heart worm infested mosquitoes feeding on cattle treated with the same products as those used in dogs. Even the "newest" products in these chemical families ( Macrocyclic Lactones and Milbemycins ) have the same target and mode of action so that resistance to one is resistance to all. It is also a well known finding that when resistance appears the products used the most fails the most such that the standard treatments used by many appear to be more affected than the "new" treatments used by few. There is generally also more than one point source and more than one type of resistance to a pesticide. Resistance to pesticides is not an evolutionary development by the target pest as much as a matter of selection within the pest population for those resistant individuals already present. Once the pesticide provides the resistant biotype with a competitive advantage they become an ever increasing percentage of the entire pest population so long as the same pesticide is used continuously. Resistance arises in multiple locations and in multiple forms.





 


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