Character of the German Shepherd Dog - Page 6

Gustav, 45 years !!! Wow 😲!!!

It will be a great privilege for the novice GSD enthusiasts like us to learn from you about your contributions in helping for the improvement of the breed in your country. 😉

gsdstudent, ''difficult to describe but unmistaken when present'' is under "General Appearance" of AKC Standard, not "Temperament". Or were you referring to a Third Standard? And why would a GOOD GSD bit you without provocation?😁

vk4gsd, there in indeed no such thing as a gsd. Correct abbreviation of German Shepherd Dog is GSD, and correct punctuation is important. 😁😁

Mackenzie, simply superb. 👌👌👍

Some characters here aren't exactly on par with any standard, either. Silly to play the punctuation game, while displaying their own careless spelling, and at the same time claim it is unnecessary for conciseness with the meaning of words.

 

Looks like this will be a great thread for sarcasm.

betree, that was a jocular statement followed by smileys. Apologies, if someone takes it otherwise.

Whatever we are sharing here are personal opinions only, Everyone having the right to believe what they want to believe.

Nothing personal between strangers, right?

 Mack's last post !

@Swarnendu   Nothing personal, agreed. I hope we get past the stranger phase in record  time! 😌

Jocular is a stellar word, btw.

If I misread your choice of emoji showing grimaced teeth, as anything other than the jocularity of the common smiley face that you might have intended— I hope my apologies are accepted, as well. 

Glad that is all cleared up. Shows your good character, right there!

Swarnendu admitted in my group to having plagiarised (like Tom Lehrer ?) many of my preachings. And for someone raised on 2 other languages, he has done pretty well in English! (Apart from "Alfa", the short word for the Alfa Romeo marque of car, instead of "alpha" for the superior leader.) But it is just as well that he didn't have to go out to work during the 2+ days he has spent arguing his case. [Mackenzie]: As a breeder I NEED to know my pups' potentials before I let any go. And I prefer to have my pups rehomed at 7-through-9 weeks old so that the buyer has a week to gain the pup's trust and STILL has time to provide all the safe-&-fun (in PUP's opinion!) familiarisation-&-confidence-building experiences needed before a pup moves from the "confident-&-curious" stage to the "need-security" stage at 13 weeks old (owners who do a good job at the familiarisation stage never know that their pup has entered the "need security" stage). So I am pestering a couple of Scandinavians about the SKK's "mentality tests". The one with lots of videos on-line is MH, for Juniors (12-to-18 months old).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMAaDOg8LLQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x-y2PlKfw8

are fairly typical of how pups can react, but you are welcome to search for the many other videos showing various Juniors going through MH with varying degrees of confidence and recovery-speed. The experiences I expect buyers to provide before their pup is 13 weeks old, plus the training classes I expect buyers to be in from 18-to-22 weeks old onwards, SHOULD see the pups breeze through that MH. If they don't, I consider that the pup should never have been born, or the owner should never have been born. I'm more interested in MV, for pups 7-to-9 weeks old, but don't yet have any videos of it. You'll need to endure Google's not-always-accurate "translation" of

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brukshundklubben.se%2Fhundar%2Fmentalbeskrivning-valp-mv%2F

 

[beetree]:

Unlike you I am GLAD that one of my dogs was happy to jump into a stranger's truck and be driven off. Years ago I had a strong rivalry between my senior stud and my 3 years old uppity-beta stud. So the older lad was offered for rehoming. As soon as left, he escaped through a window that the new owners THOUGHT they had shut, so that night I had to return and walk all through that town calling his name. He eventually found me (his claws ripped my shirt when he leapt on my back in delight) and I returned him to them. That night he climbed a pergola and escaped over a 6ft high iron fence. I spent a very dry afternoon walking & calling, but had to leave that town to perform my evening-work. I returned about midnight and began again. While I was sitting on a seat outside a school bus-stop recovering from at least an hour's walking-&-calling, a security van pulled over to me. The chap asked if I was me (I don't wear a crown while looking for dogs...). The new owners had followed my instructions and left their contact details with every vet, postie, cop, milkman, taxi driver, and security guard in town. This one had seen a dog that fitted Cwanto's description so had stopped, opened the back of the van, Cwanto had leapt in, and the security chap delivered him to my ute that was parked outside his owner's place then gone looking for me - he kindly drove me to my ute. After negotiating with the new owners I became Cwanto's owner again. My ute had a water leak so I filled a jug, let Cwanto out of the ute, lifted the bonnet ready to top-up the radiator - and Cwanto leapt into the engine compartment! Luckily he was able to extricate himself with no damage to legs or engine fittings. You wrote "~Translated by Fred Lanting http://www.germanshepherddogs.org/sv-standard/" But Fred "Mr E**" Lanting DOES NOT TRANSLATE. His ego is too big for him to take guidance from others, so he INTERPRETS to produce the result HE wants. He's not the only person who has tried to convert FCI#166 to English but, unless he's changed it from what I read about 10 years ago, his version is VASTLY different to all others. I find it impossible to believe that his is the only one that is RIGHT.

I preferred the English translation that the FCI chose to produce from the 1991 Deutsche version, but I don't have enough Deutsche or French (and only a couple of words of Spanish) to compare the FCI versions so won't attempt to declare the SV translator's version of the mid-2008 Federal update (changing the LangStockHaars from a DQ to a separate variety) approved by the 31.8.2009 WUSV Conference but not posted on the FCI website until 1.1.2011 to be wrong. It IS what all GSD addicts must ADHERE to. Those who want a pooch bigger/smaller, longer/shorter, with a different coat, more/less willing to take the initiative to bite, whatever, are simply failing to admit that THEY don't like actual GSDs, they like what THEY like. (There are a helluvalot of SV-ticket judges who nowadays fail to seek GSDs with the correct 120° angle at the rear knee & heel in stance!) Now that I'm an amputee I could do with a lighter GSD, but what fits the Standard is what I have to attempt to own and to produce examples of. You stated you'd "be happy to acknowledge the authority of Fred Lanting too, with his interpretation of the German SV" and that you'd "always thought Fred Lanting had a very respected reputation among all the GSD governing bodies" and "I'll be happy to acknowledge the authority of Fred Lanting too, with his interpretation of the German SV".

Your belief, your choices.

Fred has no balance, no humility. Early this millennium I circulated an article by a very prominent SV member. Knowing that many of my recipients were basically American & British pet-owners with no awareness of what the SV's registration requirements are, I wrote a preface explaining the minimum requirements for registering a litter with the SV - which happen to be what's required for the "green" or "white" pedigree (the colour depending on the viewer's eyesight). And being me, I HAD checked my statements with an SV associate before publicising them - but I had no ON-LINE source. Copies reached both "dear David" of Videx and Fred Lanting of Willow Wood. The pair harangued me all over the Internet (not actually using my name, 'coz that would have been libel. But my acquaintances around the world knew who they were attacking so sent me copies). A few days later one of Fred's own contacts in Germany sent a [Reply All] to everyone on Fred's list of addressees, pointing out that I was correct. Did Fred apologise? Not he - but he hurriedly updated his previous day's "Les is stupidly wrong"-type article in the Videx web-site, so it suddenly pointed out such as that he didn't REALLY mean what he had written yesterday and that NO-ONE actually wants a GSD with only the green/white pedigree. Maybe Fred should meet some dog handlers in the military, police, security firms!

David deleted the article a few days later - but he didn't apologise, either.

If you know the 4 alleles of the Agouti pattern gene in canids, read

http://www.shilohshepherds.info/riddleWhiteGSDs.html

to see Fred's incorrect definitions that omit A^^w (the 'wild' colour of GSDs) and claim that both a^^s & a^^t exist. (BTW - I use ^ to indicate that the letter(s) against its right should be in superscript, for folk whose mail doesn't display superscripts.) If you believe Fred, educate yourself at

http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/dogcolors.html

Bi-colours ARE tan-points - but so are saddle-backs and blanket-backs. That trio are a^^t in action. EVERY Internet "Fred" article I've read contained errors - especially the one he wrote after judging in my country while his licence was suspended by the AKC (& SV?). At that show he had relegated to VG.7 the ONLY dog in the Open Class that had an SchH + KKl in addition to the V grading. After seeing his article about the inheritance of HD I e-mailed him listing officials to contact to get the TRUTH about what he had claimed on the basis of lies told him by a party who was involved in the wrong side of the story and had been investigated by my country's national GSD body. That body learned from that case to NEVER trust a photocopy of an official certificate! I know that Fred asked to use the Universal Ch. owned & handled by the woman who used to be Queen in the e-group where I became King, but I cannot find any of Fred's litter in the pedigreedatabase. The only 2 GSD(?)s from Fred's breeding seem to be:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2434287-royal-dinah-of-willow-wood

who has very few ancestors recorded - and those with registration codes happen to be whites so should not be in the »GSD« section (they shoud be in the Berger Blanc Suisse section, but Oli hasn't created that - he instead created a section for the "only in the UKC" pretend-breed), and

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2314064-lord-felon-of-willow-wood

who has a mostly very respectable pedigree. (The owner of my favourite group used to work for the Bullinger kennel) As for the GSDCAm/AKC's use of the word "aloof": ANY word that assists con-artists to dupe newbie buyers into believing that the puppy that "freezes in terror", "tries to run away", "snaps when cornered", "hides behind the breeder", etc etc, has the CORRECT attitude/character/temperament is WRONG for any BSD, GSD, guardian breed, Toy breed (the lap dogs and sleeve dogs they descend from had several important functions. One was to to bite the fingers of any visitor who attempted to grope m'Lady, and then to bark until the manservants arrived to throw that visitor out and report him to m'Lord).

 

[Gustav]: If you select & breed according to the International Standard of the GSD (call it the FCI Standard if you wish, but it is, as always, the SV then the EUSV then the WUSV Standard) then all the pretend standards become irrelevant. If they contain anything that is contrary to FCI#166 or OMITS anything that is is important to FCI#166, then THEY are wrong. The KC (UK) pretend "standard" is obviously wrong, because it has deleted EVERY Disqualificaton. The AKC and CKC pretend "standards" are wrong because they omit all except about 5 of the DQs.

 

[Mackenzie] again: I suspect that you have never had a truly WILFUL pup. A sensible pup takes notice when an adult engulfs its head and rumbles. A wilful one doesn't. Of my 300+ pups, 2 ended their life-span by ignoring the warning from the uncle who was patrolling them.

 

[gsdstudent]: Your first and most URGENT study is to learn to PUNCTUATE. All breed-names are proper nouns and must obey the same rule as names of books, films, people, places etc. So the first three letters of your username are meant to be GSD. Unless you prefer to be Germanic and use DS or DSH.

You claim that: «In the standard it say about temperment, ''difficult to describe but unmistaken when present''.» But NO Standard has the word «temperment». And you will NOT find "difficult to describe" or "unmistaken" in

http://www.fci.be/Nomenclature/Standards/166g01-en.pdf

But THAT is the ONLY valid Standard for the GSD. Its 'pedigree' begins with creation by Max von Stephanitz and Artur Meyer in 1899. Nowadays, representatives of about 77 GSD nations vote on its wording. Thanks to arrogant breeders and arrogant judges ignoring THE Standard and choosing to favour what they WISH it said, the quality of dogs winning under show-is-all judges is deteriorating, especially when shows produce mutts that stand with their rear knee closer to the ground than is that leg's heel, and the forward rear leg's hock - sometimes including the heel - flat on the ground. How marvellous (NOT!!!) to have a herding dog, a mountainside S&R dog, a patrolling dog, a wall-leaping dog place its unpadded hocks (and sometime its unpadded heels, too) on the ground at each step. I guess that city kids don't take city dogs to the stony, rough, pebbly places where dogs WORK. All athletic dogs need to walk & stand & run on their NAILS and the PADS under their toes.

 

[vk4gsd]:

There IS no such thing as a "gsd".

There certainly are LOTS of over-opinionated under-educated people who sincerely believe that ANYTHING is whatever THEY "choose to perceive it as". No doubt they can easily believe that a bonsai plant is a towering pine, and a Cadillac painted in Ferrari red is an F1 racing car.... Shades of Hunpty Dumpty in 'Alice Through the Looking Glass':

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - that's all."

You seem educated on the breed at least in a book sense more than most here including me.

Now, that this what I call, edu-tainment .

You know what they say about the English Language, and the same surely holds true for an example of the standard while relating an experience on what is perceived and/or desired as perfection in the GSD:

There is an exception to every rule.

Les, a bit of plagiarism was necessary here. What's the point of preaching to the choir, if the choir cannot spread the sermon?😉😉