Serious hard GSD - Page 20

Shawnicus: "The truth is too many pussies are breeding GSDs to sniff for hot dogs and chase tennis balls and not breeding for what a real GSD was suppose to be "

Macho factor 10, Reality 2.

A litter of 8 hard dogs is not easily placed if you care. The overwhelming majority of gsd go to people with some experience (had one before) who dont need a hard a dog. I dont want to hear about how some of you super dupers can place 10 man killers easy.... blah blah my comment is a general rule.

A real GSD come on? A real gsd is utilitarian family member. Works within the unit. Some families need hard protection others need a seizure dog both are real gsd. A dog that bites for real and a real gsd can be the same but thats all personal preference caca. What you and I like and can handle a more extreme, is not law, so to discount a good family dog that works in the unit for not being seriously hard is wrong.

If it works, even sports and its stable and healthy and provides a level of protection its real.



 

This is nuts, saying that breeders are 'pussies' ( what ever that means) if they don't produce exclusively hard dogs.
I've been watching the fiasco that happened in nm last night....not one single k9 team to be seen. Instead there were cops mounted on a herd of draft horses that were so scared they were falling down and in a panic.

Now there's your venue for bad ass killer K9 s, being replaced with draft horses.  And the horses laughably inefective...cause they were lined up and standing BEHIND the riot police who are on foot, facing the criminal foreign-flag waving insurgents with pepper spray and batans only.
Gigante said it right in his above post.

PS. If I caught anyone sticking their hand inside my vehicle checking if my * crated* dogs would somehow bite him and prevent him from stealing my property, that idiot would get an aluminum horse twitch brought down with significant force across the back of his stupid head.

I think we flank the problem Joan Im in AZ, they should have called us my dogs love foreign cuisine.

Rotflmao @ gigante 

BW so according to you the trainer who in the video  " doesn't have the skill" got the dog to BSP and ended #16. Well cool that adds to your credibility.
Also you completely missed the point of adding havoc and stress and confusion into training of competition dog or any dog for that matter. You say that I am making things up  because I have no idea what is going on on the videos. Well I assure you I do know quite well what is going on there.

Prager...I'll type slowly so you understand.

The trainer does have the ability to train a dog...the trainer might not have the other skill set (less compulsive). Comprende?

You DON'T have any idea what's going on there. You weren't there. There is no way you can know what exactly what going on. You could infer something from the training you see, but your inference has a very high chance of being wrong. The idea that the dog is HARD because it took a couple kicks from a handler is completely ridiculous and shows exactly how little you do understand about what is going on.

I know trainers like you. You see exercise A being done and it tells you the dog is X. There is no grey for you. It's black and white just like 99% of the pussification crowd. Very little actual thought process when it comes to training. It's just...see this, react like that. There is very little "why?"

 

Each and every one of my dogs can take a kick like that in training and keep going, they won't even bat an eye to it. Guess what...I don't consider any of them "hard" dogs. They're quite biddable and that is something I quite enjoy about them. I have a male who can take some of the highest/hardest corrections I've ever seen a dog take and keep going...still don't consider him hard because he learns very quickly from the correction and doesn't worry after it's done.

 

Thanks for the advice about how to train a competition dog. Maybe next time I see you at a national competition you'll be able to give some in person? I've been at the last 6 and haven't seen you there though so I'm not sure if that will ever be a possibility.

BW You liked that did you? You can borrow it.

It would be helpful if you could. not chastise someone for not knowing whats going on and then state you know whats going on yourself using the same medium. Put a foot on one side of the fence, all that stretching your likely to be sore. Almost every post you attack a thought or idea or method then use the same process you just attacked, to attack.

" I have a male who can take some of the highest/hardest corrections I've ever seen a dog take and keep going...still don't consider him hard because he learns very quickly from the correction and doesn't worry after it's done."

Im not sure you can have a hard dog that worries about the correction after corrected, polar opposite. Why would you use the hardest correction with a a dog whom does not need them?

What is a hard dog in your version? I think that would help.

First...I'm not chastising. I'm stating that there is no way to know one way or another FROM THE VIDEO POSTED that the dog is hard or not. There is no way to know if the training method the handler is using, is the best or right method for that dog or that the physical correction the handler gives the dog means the dog is hard. And yes, the training method has proven itself to be successful in this case because we do know the results of the training.

The point about my dog is he does need those hard corrections, he just learns from them. The "hard" dogs I've seen and believe are hard, are those that take the correction but will still do whatever they want. The correction itself DOESN'T MATTER to the dog. You can hit the dog, hang the dog, double line it with 5 people and crank away on a prong, or hit it on the highest level ecollar you have available...and the dog will still do what it wants to do. These dogs are rare...and usually the only way to get through to them is to make them realize, do what I want, you get what you want...AKA shaping a behavior. Most "old school" handlers have just one way of dealing with this type of dog...and believe it's the pressure/correction that gets them to do something...when in reality the RELEASE of the pressure is what causes the dog to revert to the wanted behavior. The dog can't get what it wants when it does something wrong, usually due to a restraint, and when it does do the right thing the dog is released to it's reward.

To me...correction sensitivity (whether the dog needs to be hit on 5 or 100) has nothing to do with how hard the dog is. The thinking/learning process after the correction is what makes a dog truly "hard." This is where you get into the confusion with most trainers who think that if they have a dog that can handle a level 100 correction it automatically makes the dog a "hard dog." It doesn't. It just shows you the dog has a higher threshold for pain/getting corrected.

BW- your definition of "Hard" is odd. What you're describing sounds more like stubbornness or stupidity. "Hard" as I've used and understood the term has to do with acceptance and recovery from adversity.

 

A 'Hard' dog can be cooperative (or stubborn). A Hard dog can be smart (or dumb). A hard dog might need a level 10 correction to get his attention when he's in drive but only need a soft command at other times. A Hard dog may never, ever need a harsh correction from the handler (or he might need level 10 all the damn time).

 

A SAR dog that gets his foot caught in a trap might cry like a baby. He might learn from one incident to avoid traps. BUT if he continues working without any lingering mental effects from trap then he's "Hard".

 

A hard dog who gets kicked by a horse will pick himself up, shake it off and keep on doing whatever job he was doing before getting kicked. A stubborn or dumb dog will probably get kicked again. A smart dog might learn how to avoid getting kicked. 

 

"Hard" is more about resilience and mental toughness. Stubbornness, independence and/or stupidity are all separate traits from Hardness.

 

 

Or maybe your definition of it is odd?

Keep on training those SAR labs and letting them get kicked by horses out on the farm...

We can split any "dog trait" into a million different things. I've personally never seen anyone truthfully "rate" the stupidity of a dog. We tend to talk about dog cognitive ability with words like drive, biddability, ect. You clearly enjoy calling dogs stupid. I'm sure it helps you in your training.