Belfield DVM cures HD - Page 2

Hundmutter

Theres no voodoo involved the poster said cure, people can post perception I don't believe any claim of cure has ever been made. Vitamin C is essential for collagen cartilage and tendons. Since it is destroyed to make collagen and stress I believe can deplete as well it is not a far stretch to say that healthy joints in dogs that have a low output can be a major factor in hd.

In fact without enough they cant have healthy joints ligaments and tendons. Since dogs grow the most the first year not a stretch to think that a low output could have major implications on hips & joints especially with the big spurts that take place. Add environmental stress and or poor muscle tone and one slip of the ball and fluid leaks out and you have HD. Strong muscle strong tendon high quality collagen equals better joints.

@Gigante : I only 'buy' environmental factors where
there is already genetic propensity.

True that muscle development = better joints; but
vit. C does not automatically = better collagen and muscle
development, - lots of other factors involved (good diet
generally, exercise levels and type, genetics [again], etc.)

Besides which, I have lived with a GSD with HD who had
good muscle development, so she never went "off" her
hips, and I can tell you that was no "cure"...

In contrast to humans ( and apes ! greetings, Shtal..) dogs do produce the C vitamin by themselves, it´s produced in liver and kidneys, as far as I know. Stress ( proved ) and hard physical work ( sled dogs, proved ) are able to burn up more C vitamin than the dog´s body is able to produce, otherwise scientists haven´t been able to find any unbalance in healthy dogs.

We think about dogs, so ...

- what does cause stress in a bitch ( given that a brood bitch doesn´t have major physical stress prior to whelping ) ?

Any bitch that needs to move during pregnancy ( sale ) will have a lot of stress
Any bitch that is not allowed to give birth in her used surrounding ( kennel instead of living room or vice versa ) will have stress
Any bitch not having her peace ( other dogs, too many strange people ) will have stress

- what does cause stress in a puppy?

Any puppy sold ( new surrounding ) will have stress
Any puppy having to deal with a "new pack" will have stress
(This may be the main reason, why breeders tend to have the " better " dogs in case of HD )

The C vitamin is water-soluble, that said the dog´s body doesn´t store it, but will discard anything not needed, there is no real danger of "overdosing" besides some loose stool.

I believe in genetics, and I believe in the HD system ( affected dogs not allowed for breeding ), but it´s common sense that the environment is able to either better or worsen the " genetically basis " - the C vitamin is cheap, and it doesn´t seem to be harmful.....






 

It is cheap, it does not stay in the body in excess, and
it does not appear to do any harm. Yup - so why bother
with it ? It certainly isn't a "cure" and therefore did not
ought to be 'marketed' as one.

Here is what Malcolm Willis had to say about this, back
in 1991:
"Vitamin C (ascorbic acid).
Bellfield (1976) considered HD was an expression of
sub-clinical scurvy. He recommended sodium ascorbate
as a means of combatting HD. Such a theory was regarded
by many breeders as an answer to their prayers. Not only
did it mean that HD could be cured but it was taken to mean
that the problem was not so much genetic as environmental
and therefore breeders were exonerated. Bellfield's evidence
was based upon 8 GSD litters and the paper was in a non-
refereed journal. There were serious flaws in the work and
the fact that Bellfield stated that he had 'never found a genetic
pattern' in hip dysplasia throws considerable doubt on his
reading of the literature. ... a review of the subject by Bennett
(1987)is worth mentioning: He states categorically that the use
of ascorbic acid to prevent HD cannot be supported, and says
"Indeed, the use of excessive Vit C supplementation in large
breeds may actually be harmful because these dogs are often
overfed, and supplemented with Calcium." In such circumstances
extra Vit C could cause hypocalcaemia ... (so) far from being a
panacea solution, Vitamin C is contraindicated in HD. "

I am sure Susie knows this already but for those who do not,
Willis was both a Genetics Professor (Uni of Newcastle) and
the mainstay of the British HD Xray & records systems.

"I guess in some cases it could be hereditary, but I believe in most instances it is environmental."

Then it's an injury, not HD.  By definition, HD is a genetic condition.

👍

Couldn't be genetic, clearly the new puppy owner didn't get the phosphorus/calcium ratio right and didn't do the correct exercise.

Contract voided.

Willis sounds a bit like a pompous dickhead. Many vets/genetic professors still believe you should vaccinate dogs annually because they say so. If I where to use carrots excessively in my diet to improve my eye site and over eat and take to many valium on the third sunday of each month it could cause......... Thats his argument? Saw many flaws but didn't state one. Stated "Such a theory was regarded by many breeders as an answer to their prayers" Thats not a argument for or against, a professor should know better.

I wish to categorically state that using only excellent hip dogs is no cure for HD, and further I believe that it will not prevent HD, it simply cannot be scientifically supported.
But its is what we have.....

I dont believe even Belfield thought Panacea, so why be a dingle balls and jump to ridiculous? I would have to go back but Im almost positive he wanted serious studies done to see if serious fact could be derived from the use. But serious money could not be made from a vitamin. I would love to read scientific studies on the use, if anyone has that to post.

Im going to finish my bowl of spinach hundmutter which is cheap, even though it wont stay in the body in excess, and it does not appear to do any harm. I know why bother
with it ? It certainly isn't a "cure" for my small bicep, popeye lied. ;)~

Look

Anecdotal evidence in the absence of factual data with a vitamin that offers no negative consequence, of consequence, that is factually scientifically proven essential to produce whats needed to have healthy joint systems.......... seems to be of much less drama for people hoping to improve the health and longevity of those they hold dear. Thats good enough for me and I would venture, most. Minus the drama of ridiculous.

Malcolm was no "pompous dickhead", believe me
Gigante. He also wasn't a vet. He owned, bred
(in a very small way), and judged GSDs. He is very
much missed by the UK GSD community.

Whether many vets (not geneticists, not really, not
AFAICR) pushed by pharma companies continue(d)
to fight for yearly boosters once they were proved
unnecessary is irrelevant here.

Popeye and his reaction to spinach ? Seriously ?

You go with whatever you think is right for your dogs,
I just want to warn people of the possible misinformation
here.