Wolf trotting - Page 6

My dog gets from point a to point b without tripping or falling, over reach is perfect, no hocks hitting the ground ( hock mean 'high' as in heel off the ground) so *perfect* !

Well I like Mikasa, and I like Koot's dog too. Personally I think Koot's is very close to perfection in rear angulation and croup lay. His rear angulation needs slightly more depth and his croup needs slightly a lesser angle. Slightly means only little bit. I imagine his stifle opening (turn) is round 140 degrees while the perfect, again in my opinion is 125-130 degrees. I also imagine his croup angle is 27 degrees while perfect is 23.
I believe this little more and little less will not hurt or affect his athletic build, ligaments nor overall fitness while adding to his under reach to make it ideal. Same goes for Joanro's female, maybe she needs a little extra in rear angulation than Koot's, based on seen pics so far.
In theory the closer the shoulder and stifle angles to 90 degrees is better for fore and under reach, and thus more ground covered per a single trot cycle. that is science and no one should really doubt it.
But a dog is not a metal machine that we can design, manufacture and then maintain. It does not work like that. Dog's movement involves bones, muscles, ligaments plus stamina, crossing the limits of one or more of those elements disrupts the whole system.
There is a very good video that shows what happens to a GSD when one of those elements is crossed over its limits. I will ask Living Fence to post it for me, if he/she does, I will explain my point better.
The above 3 elements are the very direct ones related to movement, but there are many more that affect dog's movement and make the desired equilibrium such as size, weight, proportions ........ etc

The deeper angulation in both the rear and front is better for a trotter, theoretically that is 100% correct and all should agree on to start with. But what is the maximum angulation after which trot of a dog is adversely affected?
That is a difficult question indeed. But we have the answer on hand if we really care. Look at the breed history, in the very beginning the foundation dogs had minimum angulation, then as the breed progressed angulations got better and better till we reached this date where we have problems in the trot
Loose backs
Arched backs
Low withers
Loose rears
Wobbling elbows
and so on

We need to review the history and agree on a point where all was good and acceptable (including work ability connected to structure)

Ibrahim, all those angles and degrees mean little if the dog has muscle tightness due to injury, or loose ligaments due to poor conditioning.... What does matter is good health and what is between the ears so that the dog can be an asset to his owner.

Living Fence, please see if you can post both the videos, thank you Please watch these 2 videos

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA3H2A_xIOQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H6SCwlT11w

 

 

Untill I saw these two videos I didn't realize how wrong and dangerous over angulation is for the breed. Please, all friends, watch closely what goes on with MANY of those dogs' tip of rear foot when moving forward for the under reach, the tip hits the ground for few seconds. Imagine how dangerous that is for the dog when trotting on similat terrain like that wolves were trotting on in previous videos. That's not safe nor humane, really

 

 

Ibrahim, the PADS of the foot are designed to carry the dog over the ground, not the the hock. That is why my dog 's feet landing on the ground on the pads of the toes is correct... Almost never will you see a show shepherd's rear feet land properly as mine does...because of the disparity in rear angulation. The 'hock' is not supposed to land or come into contact during gaiting. If we were looking at bears or raccoons, the hock is not a hock, but it is a heel same as we humans have and therefore is supposed to land flat on the ground. In animals such as the dog and cow, the heel is 'high ' ( off the ground) so is named HOCK.

Yes I know that Joanro, I am raising another point which is dangerous for the dog and not safe, I will explain it more, bear with MY ENGLISH

In a trot, dog shifts front leg forward and rear leg of same side backward, then he shifts front leg backward and rear leg forward.
At this stage in movement, watch for the tip of toes of the rear foot. The tip of toes touches the ground for few seconds before foot gets under dog's body. What do you call this action?
Tip of toes touching the ground while foot is moving under dog's body should not take place, when it does this will cause injury to dog's toes when trotting on natural ground (not grass).

Do you get my point guys? If not I will try to post a picture or sketch for better explanation.

Haha, not a good sketch, do you get my point here?