SchH titled, American bred GSDs of the 70s, 80s, 90s – questions and a list - Page 5

Star has a few of the Danlyn and Glendhenmere dogs in her pedigree. They are quite a way back, but it could be one of the reasons she has such good working temperament, despite her being half ASL.

It is very difficult to compare the traits of the breed then and now if you have not witnessed both in person. It is even more difficult to assess temperament, power,and strength of then and now if you aren't active participant then and now. So much of understanding comes from seeing, feeling, and sensing these distinct qualities. It is also necessary for person to be able to READ these traits in dogs today/yesterday and reading dogs ONLY comes from experience. It can't be bequeathed or understood from stories or videos.jmo

Lots of questions asked...  will try to be concise...

 

So, Am show line people of the past decades, as a majority, bred themselves into a hole that took decades to get out of.

 

At the time I purchased my first "purebred" dog, the majority of the available american-bred showlines were already so inbred on Lance that they had become mere cardboard cutouts of one another...  it was really really sad, and after just a very short time in the "show" circuit, it became PAINFULLY apparent that the whole affair was extremely political, and that any deviation from the "streamliners" (as we called them) would NOT place in any way, shape, or form.

Knowing what I know NOW, I can tell you that most of them were breeding for extremes, and that was the ONLY thing they cared about..slinking superfast sidegait. Everything else fell by the wayside, because those people didn't CARE about hips, health, temperament, long life, working ability, or ANYTHING else...  

The showline breeder that I bought Diego from told me that her german shepherds LOVED tracking, HATED obedience, and that SHE didn't believe in any "bitework".

Diego could NOT track worth a crap, won trophies in obedience, and was the nastiest "guard dog" of sharpness in the bitework.... He also was incredibly thin, would NEVER gain weight, had the most horrid narrow east/west front legs and chest, and was uncoordinated to the point of injury. A good friend of mine at the time also bought a puppy from the same breeder, similar lines, her dog's ears almost didnt stand and had to be posted for MONTHS, he had allergies/shedding all of his life, and he was a horrible nervebag of a dog that could not even stay focused long enough to heel for a CD.

Multiply our poor experiences by hundreds of young new people to the breed, and it was no WONDER so many people became  adament that they would NEVER own another "am show line".... 

 

Unfortunately, the same circumstances can also be said of OTHER "lines/types" of german shepherd...

Anytime one breeds ONLY for extremes and not balance, you will get poor results over time. That goes for all "lines".

Shortcuts kick you in the butt in the end... 

 

But as Susie has said many times, if it's not required, then people won't do it...      that is the greedy shortcut.

The best thing that can be done is research...  reading...  really immersing yourself in the facts before investing yourself in any dog/line, especially if your intent is breeding or working it in any venue.

 

Over the years, I personally sought out specific breeders who had ideals that I wished to emulate.. I studied what they were doing, talked to them, wrote to them, and if possible, visited them in person and spent time with them. This was BEFORE the advent of internet and "instant gratification".

 

Why aren't these people and their programs still around??

 

Well, they got old, sick, and died. They were islands in the sea of turds, and oftentimes did not whore themselves out like certain others...

I would not say that the lines don't exist..  I have some, there are others. You just have to really look.

 

I would also admit that it is REALLY really difficult to find clubs/helpers to work dogs they don't know HOW to work, or don't have easy success with, or dont like the breeders bringing them out, or whatever other bizarre reasons they have..... 

Right now, I am hundreds of miles from home, training for a trial that I hope to pass, simply because the resources in my area are NOT there for me.

 

There is also the definition of the "american bred dog". American bred is any dog bred and whelped in USA... 

More impressive would be american bred dog that has been either pointed or CH in AKC show ring, AND has the temperament, health, and structure to work in schutzhund. Just finding a random dog from a variety of lines that had no rhyme or reason isn't necessarily success and something to emulate.. all of the pieces have to be there.

 

At the end of the day, ask yourself if the majority of the animals you produced are balanced enough to be clear headed, solid and healthy companions/natural protectors for the masses. Can they live with their people, or are they soooo extreme that they need bubbles around them to keep them from everything?? The pet owners are your barometer...  all the excuses in the world don't matter to them.

 

 

 

Damn...where's the 'like' button when you need it?

A sad story, DenWolf, but unfortunately, true.

'Amen' to that, Denwulf..., TY for posting it.

" Right now, I am hundreds of miles from home, training for a trial that I hope to pass, simply because the resources in my area are NOT there for me. "

 

I’ve heard all of the excuses and Denwolf, when quoting Susie, is correct, when it’s not required…people won’t do it. That is basically what it all boils down to. The majority of the demand in the market comes from people that have no idea what a working dog is, what to expect from a good working dog, and many don’t actually want a dog that works but one that just looks a certain way. When people can make a living just off of a few conformation shows, why waste time with training for Schutzhund or anything else? Like Denwolf mentioned, there were people that tried, but they fail quickly because they get bottlenecked and have no other choice but to either switch what they care about or to bring in outside lines. If the Schutzhund/performance is more important to those people, they’ll want the best dogs and make the objective decision to get away from their own lines. You can see it today…look at how many high level competitors are trialing with dogs out of their own lines or even their prior dog…not many. They know what they want to see from their dogs and won’t try to force that on a dog that lacks genetically what it needs to get there.

I know countless people today that start with a different breed and then switch to a working shepherd or a malinois when the work becomes the most important thing to them. It’s sad too because I’ve seen many inept dogs lead people away from working venues and give up on training because they won’t get rid of the dog and the dog won’t do anything.

Thanks, Susie..

I needed a break from 2015...  and there is a trial at my good friend's club.

Now just keeping fingers crossed for next weekend...  this will be it for Dante's SCH career I think.

 

Hope Dante, the wonder dog and you, have/had a successful trial to mark the ending of his career! Give him a big hug from me!

Thanks, Bee!!

Its this Saturday...  t minus 2 days and counting...... I am trying not to think about it.

 

Glad to see you back online!

 

Dante says hi back.