The decline of the German Shepherd character - Page 2

"It comes down to reasonable debate on all sides." (Mackenzie)

OR it comes down to NO "debate."

Merely an acceptance of the reality that within the SV system we have:

1.  Showline German Shepherd Dogs who are show centric.

2.  Working line German Shepherd Dogs who are work/title centric.

3.  And, throughout the rest of the World "German Shepherds" who's breeding selection are all over the map.

What's to debate?

C' est la vie.

Next topic.....

Kevin

What kind of character are people actually looking for?

Every kind of "character" imaginable, apparently....

(Couch potato, killer, etc... - or some combination thereof)

Ya know, personal standards leading to mass puppy sales within a large and (too) varied "market."

(sarcasm)

K

Mackenzie, you said working line breeders are more bonded to their dogs. You said it. I didn't "judge" anything. That is such an overly-generalized, simplistic statement I can hardly believe a compos mentis adult would write that on a forum. It's a huge, sweeping, broad *opinion*. Maybe that's not how you meant it. If not, please clarify. 

I've never owned a showline dog in my life. However, I would never presume to tell someone that because I train my (working line) dogs that I am more bonded to them. I just don't even understand what possible point the post has if your premise is that working line breeders are more bonded. 

Have to agree with Kevin completely. Next topic, please. 

Kevin - Regarding your comment about the SV I totally agree with you. I also agree with you that the SV system does make it possible to find a dog that fits most working purposes. To quote the founder of the breed he said “ the German Shepherd is a working dog that can be shown”. Your comment does not take both sides in account.

My criticism is valid and, of course there still are some good dogs out there and it is complete nonsense to say, or, even suggest otherwise. The situation is and, has been allowed to develop, that a dog is either for show or work but not both in one package. Once again, work or show we are still one breed and should remain so in our aims.

The debate is to bring back the working dog character and the willingness to work and be shown to achieve the breed standard that we have.

One of the major problems that the show side has is that under Hermann Martin’s Presidency the gene pool was so drastically reduced. It is my opinion that this side need the working breeding families to open up the gene pool. Also, the working side needs to use suitable show lines to improve the anatomical position of their dogs.

Mackenzie

Mackenzie,

Your points are valid and have been well hashed / debated ad nauseum within these pages, the SV, and my own organization.

My point is simple; it's not going to happen - no matter how well intentioned you and/or others may be; and doubly true any "progress" toward that goal by posting on this forum.  No matter how civil your intentions, you can only succeed in inflaming (often) nonsensical passions.

And, BTW, I have a bit of experience regarding the "working ability" of showlines.

Carry on if you must.  But for my part I'm done.

Best to you,

Kevin

Jenni78 - What I actually said in my first post was “Working line breeders may have some problems but the bonds between them and their dogs is much stronger probably because they tend to have fewer dogs which in turn means that their dogs are kept active and work to a discipline“. If you read the sentence you will see that I did not use the word “more” as you quote. I also qualified the reason for having stronger bonds.

I would point out that if you have nothing better to post then go elsewhere.

Mackenzie

"why can't we be friends?''  who sang it? Can character be judged as the ability to know when to fight and when not to fight?  for the remaining few hours of 2014- Why can't we be friends? 

Kevin - I am not going to make a joining together of the two sides of the breed any more than you alone are going to keep them apart. What the thread is about is the decline of the character with in the breed and it’s causes. This is one aspect that both sides can at least talk about.

When we talk about character in my opinion it is a dog being firm in his nerves with the ability and willingness to work. That applies to both sides of the fence. I do not want the extreme biters the we have in the excesses of the working side because there is as you well know more than one aspect to the all round working dog e.g. obedience, search and find, tracking, protection

This post, in part, is to help newcomers to the breed and hopefully get experienced people within the breed to contribute to the debate in dealing with this problem.

Sorry that you are leaving the post.

I wish you a very happy and successful new year.

Mackenzie

   I find it so disturbing, and UNTRUE that the German Shepherd has lost it's natural instincts. 

What I also see as the problem is many 'sport dogs', are just that, a piece of property that is owned, only to be put away, and taken out, as time allows.

    I am a small breeder. My dogs 'live with me'. My pups are born and raised in my home, with me. They are not kenneled or crated. They eat and sleep with me.

    My dogs have not had any specialized personal protection training, but I can guarantee you, they ARE personal protectors.

   People say they have no inherited civil defence. I beg to differ...

I watch as my dogs do regular border patrols, every day.You can be a very welcome guest at my house,

But make no mistake, my dogs will not hesitate to tear your ass off IF that is what is called for!

I love my dogs, and they know it. My dogs also love me...and they are more than willing to protect me.

   It's a little thing called, and known by "unconditional love". They don't have to do nothing more than be here to feel it.

   I have showlines,  i have working lines, i have show/work cross. There IS NO DIFFERENCE in the temperments..they are all basicly the same...true German Shepherds.