If someone breeds American Show Types... - Page 7

Best,
Rik

well RIK,  you are the only one saying  something about my "expert" opinion.  I'll say it again,  you don't have to read my posts. 

I have never claimed to be an authority on anything. or an expert for that matter.

I love all gsd. a beautiful gsd is just that, no matter whats on its papers.

I never said Ork was the best, who knows. only time will tell. a good breeding dogs worth is generally only seen after it is finished breeding, and its progeny and grand progeny have taken over.

I consider Ork one of the very best available in the U.S. Not only for his excellent bite work and character, but also because of his excellent mother line.

Best,
Rik.

Rik I wanted to see the pic...........is he on the database?  I searched for him by ther name you listed and nothing.........if you want to send me a pic privately I would be happy to post it.....................

Your ridiculous choices for good AM. S/L anatomy is of course the 1st. You are proving to be the kind of girl I have always liked best, EASY.

You disappoint me Rik. I stil had some respect for you, up until now. 

BTW, if you're such good friends with Fred, you should know that in his book, The Total GSD, he reports that the ideal angle for the shoulder has been determined to be 102 degrees. The 90 degree shoulder is a myth.

As for my 'backyard pet', she was sold to me as show/breeding quality, by a breeder who's been into raising and showing dogs longer than I've been alive.

Turns out she (and her spouse) were wrong. You ever been wrong, Rik?

I took her to one show. I'm a fast learner. That was all it took for me to realize she wasn't going to win anything in the CKC/AKC showring. And I'm not the sort of person who gets rid of a dog just because it fails to meet expectations. We're currently working on tracking and obedience. I was planning to do agility with her too, but I bunged my back up so badly last winter that my right foot is still partially numb.

Schutzhund? She's got enough ball drive and confidence that she could probably do it. But the nearest club is over 3 hours away.

There's a two dog per household limit in this town, and I'm over that limit right now, if you count my room-mate's little mutt. Maybe by sometime next year,  I'll have that piece of rural property I've been dreaming of, and will be able to get another dog or two.


SunSilver, the dog you posted is not Zima of Nordlicht. She is however very typical of Am. S/L

Where did I ever SAY she was Zima? I never mentioned Zima at all. However, she IS a Zima grand-daughter, out of Nordlicht's Easy Goer!

Here's what someone much more experienced than I am has to say about the German showlines:

DDR-DSH said: 

I liked the DDR dogs.. They were not ALL good, of course, but they were a lot like the GSD was in W. Germany back in the early 70's when I first got involved in the dogs. I think the breed kind of went to hell in a handbasket when the Martin brothers took over everything. A LOT of good bloodlines and genetic diversity just disappeared. The Japanese had started to throw a LOT of money at the high show winners, and everyone jumped on the bandwagon and went into the Canto / Quanto lines. And, actually, one of my all time favorite dogs was a Quanto Wienerau granddaughter.. But, she went to a lot of other good old lines you cannot find anymore. Shame on the SV and Germans, really, that they have done this to the breed. I was a member of the SV from 1974 until 1999. I put in 25 years and quit!!!! It was not the same breed, anymore, not the same organization. I used to covet these pretty black and gold / red show dogs, but now they almost make me sick to see. This is what is left of the original breed, and believe me, you would not recognize them as the same breed, anymore. There are still some good dogs, of course.. some fabulous ones, but there are a lot of problems, too (if it still is as it was when I was working with "show" lines). Also, consider also the other original, indigenous lines which were lost in the rush to pretty show dogs! Where are the blacks, the bi colors, the sables? If not for the working dog breeders, they would be entirely gone, too!

Link: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/317421.html



"I think the breed kind of went to hell in a handbasket when the Martin brothers took over everything. A LOT of good bloodlines and genetic diversity just disappeared." 

Oh, yes! I totally agree!

Sunsilver, What has DDR-DSH posted in that thread that I haven't said time and time again. As for your generalizing about workinglines. Of the 42 puppies (Czech, DDR, and West German workinglines) that I sold in past 6 years, 38 of them went into family homes. Have not had one of them returned, only get calls of happiness from some, and referrals from to others so I have a waiting list now of about 10 people for my next litter. How does that equate to your statement that as an exception "some workinglines dogs can settle in home with family.".The other 4 pups...I kept two and two went to police officers. I don't know you sunsilver but I would bet that you don't own a workingline dog and definitely haven't bred a workingline litter. Or is it my dogs are magical. Too many people post internet/show sideline gossip on this board as facts. Then when people who are real practitioners call them on it they get offended and divert the issue like saying people are closeminded. But they never refute the statements of the practitioners with "facts" to support they assertions.I talk to working trainers all the time about the breed....herding trainer, police trainers, SAR trainers, sport trainers, etc. I was at the USPCA regional competition in the judges tent with one of the trainers of the Morristown Guide Dog program. Iasked her about German Shepherds in general and the American as well as the other subsets. You don't want to know what she thinks of the American lines....but of course she doesn't know as much as the experts here with "opinions". You see, she has an educated opinion on what she speaks because it is based in what she has experienced over many years. This is the kind of information I value whether it agrees with me or not. Some of the statements on this forum is so based in fantasy or wishful thinking that I am actually retarded for responding to them....but I never said I was without sin as others have intimated....Peace!

vonissk, I think I have to down size the picture before I can link it. It is not on the data base,

His sire is there though: www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/523497.html

Rik

vonissk, this is Am./Can. Ch. Alfaro's Hot Darn. Bred by myself and Alan Milhausen, my partner at the time.

Arrrgh.  Gustav, when I said there were 'exceptions' to the above, I meant that in a general way. I didn't mean that the 'exceptions' were as rare as hen's teeth. I've heard time and again from WL owner on the database about their dogs being wonderful, kid- friendly house dogs. I'm glad to hear that that's been your experience too. It show you're doing things right, and considering temperment in your breeding program as well as other factors.
 
However, please look at this thread, titled "What Lines Do NOT Make Good Pets", and you'll see that Shellty (whose opinions I respect very much) says MOST working lines do not make good pets:

"Most good workingline dogs do not make good "pets". Too much drive, too much energy, too much dog. These dogs are mouthy, can be dominant, and definitely need a firm but fair hand to train them. These dogs need a job. They are called *working* line for a reason. These dogs need not only exercise but also good training from a savvy handler. "


http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/bulletins_read/292865.html

Also, RIk, you keep referring to Star as a 'he'. Does she REALLY look that masculine?   

July, re. Maricio's steep front, that was what my bitch's breeder, who breeds German showlines, said about him when I asked him his opinion.  I still think he's absolutely gorgeous!