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by SitasMom on 16 July 2009 - 15:07
I have 4 dogs, the male pup is the only issue.
The 10 year Aussie, who is trained for obedience and agility and came down with HD. Will be going for CGC this month.
The 3 year old Great Dane mix, who is obedience trained- will be going for CGC this month.
Both are rescues.
And
The 15 month GSD bitch who is going for BH and CGC this month
The 9 month GSD male who has very strong pack drive issues.......he knows most of the elements of the BH already.
I have kicked the pup (with my knee) when he jumps up on me and my hands are full - very consistently.
I have screamed in a deep tone of voice at him and for him it actually works! I don't like it.
And as far as consistency goes.......
I trained a cat to heel on a leash, sit, roll-over, play dead, come, pray and a few other tricks......now that takes consistence!
The 10 year Aussie, who is trained for obedience and agility and came down with HD. Will be going for CGC this month.
The 3 year old Great Dane mix, who is obedience trained- will be going for CGC this month.
Both are rescues.
And
The 15 month GSD bitch who is going for BH and CGC this month
The 9 month GSD male who has very strong pack drive issues.......he knows most of the elements of the BH already.
I have kicked the pup (with my knee) when he jumps up on me and my hands are full - very consistently.
I have screamed in a deep tone of voice at him and for him it actually works! I don't like it.
And as far as consistency goes.......
I trained a cat to heel on a leash, sit, roll-over, play dead, come, pray and a few other tricks......now that takes consistence!
by Slamdunc on 16 July 2009 - 17:07
OK, Sitasmom, you have gotten some very good advice here from Amanda, Debi, Tess and Tasha. Since you are serious I'll add my 2 cents. First you wrote:
I spend 20 minutes per dog before going to work. 20 minutes when I get home and another 20 minutes per dog just before bed time......that's an hour a day per dog.......how much time do you spend per dog?
Honestly, I don't spend that much time on formal obedience with my dogs each day. With a 9 month old puppy I might do 4 or 5 minutes tops and put the dog away. With my current dog, who is now 3 years old I do about 10 minutes and stop. At the end of 10 minutes my dog is pretty tired. I do my obedience in drive and expect total concentration, focus and high energy. I may play for a couple of minutes after I finish but that's it. If I have time I may do a second session later in the day, that would be ideal for me. My dogs would be too tired to do 20 minutes of high energy obedience and so would I. Remember the SchH obedience routine is also only about 10 minutes.
I should mention that my dogs have two sets of commands, German and English. Only I use the German commands and they are reserved for training and working. They have different meanings to the dog. Fuss means heel with total focus and attention while heel means walk next to me shoulder to my knee, but you can look around. Fuss is for obedience, Heel may be used while I'm working or in protection when I want the dog to focus on the decoy. Easy means don't pull on the leash lets just walk. I rarely tell my dogs to heel, except going through a crowd where I want the dog to heel close to me but watch people around me as well. Fuss is only for sport work and it puts the dog into drive and focus.
It's quality not quantity. I rarely do the SchH heeling pattern, rather I break each exercise down to it's fundamentals and work on that for several training sessions. If I am working on the sit out of motion for example, I may work that exercise for a week of training sessions and nothing else. Only 4 or 5 minutes, maybe 8 - 10 reps each session, but this varies too depending how well the progression is going. I do the same for the platz, stand, dumbbell, the voraus takes a little longer in the sessions.
I plan each obedience, tracking or protection session before I go out on the field. I have specific exercises to teach or issues to proof or work on.
As far as general behavior goes I am very consistent. My dogs are never released from a Kennel or crate until they sit or are at least calm. My dogs learn form puppies that barking in a crate will not get them success. They learn the door only opens when they are calm and can contain themselves. I do have specific things I work on in the house. My dogs do not go outside when the front or back door opens, they must sit and wait for me to release them. I go first and they wait. This solves the problem of them bolting out the door when it is opened. If both dogs are there they must both sit and wait. I don't put the dogs food down until they sit and focus on my face, then the bowl goes down and they wait till I say "ok". This was the same when I had 3 GSD's, all 3 had to wait until everyone was sitting, calm and focused on my face then they could eat.
I never give my dogs commands that I cannot immediately enforce. Once a dog understands a command it has 1 1/2 to 2 seconds to obey it then I will enforce it. There is no grey area when the dog understands the command. I never scream at my dogs and I never hit
I spend 20 minutes per dog before going to work. 20 minutes when I get home and another 20 minutes per dog just before bed time......that's an hour a day per dog.......how much time do you spend per dog?
Honestly, I don't spend that much time on formal obedience with my dogs each day. With a 9 month old puppy I might do 4 or 5 minutes tops and put the dog away. With my current dog, who is now 3 years old I do about 10 minutes and stop. At the end of 10 minutes my dog is pretty tired. I do my obedience in drive and expect total concentration, focus and high energy. I may play for a couple of minutes after I finish but that's it. If I have time I may do a second session later in the day, that would be ideal for me. My dogs would be too tired to do 20 minutes of high energy obedience and so would I. Remember the SchH obedience routine is also only about 10 minutes.
I should mention that my dogs have two sets of commands, German and English. Only I use the German commands and they are reserved for training and working. They have different meanings to the dog. Fuss means heel with total focus and attention while heel means walk next to me shoulder to my knee, but you can look around. Fuss is for obedience, Heel may be used while I'm working or in protection when I want the dog to focus on the decoy. Easy means don't pull on the leash lets just walk. I rarely tell my dogs to heel, except going through a crowd where I want the dog to heel close to me but watch people around me as well. Fuss is only for sport work and it puts the dog into drive and focus.
It's quality not quantity. I rarely do the SchH heeling pattern, rather I break each exercise down to it's fundamentals and work on that for several training sessions. If I am working on the sit out of motion for example, I may work that exercise for a week of training sessions and nothing else. Only 4 or 5 minutes, maybe 8 - 10 reps each session, but this varies too depending how well the progression is going. I do the same for the platz, stand, dumbbell, the voraus takes a little longer in the sessions.
I plan each obedience, tracking or protection session before I go out on the field. I have specific exercises to teach or issues to proof or work on.
As far as general behavior goes I am very consistent. My dogs are never released from a Kennel or crate until they sit or are at least calm. My dogs learn form puppies that barking in a crate will not get them success. They learn the door only opens when they are calm and can contain themselves. I do have specific things I work on in the house. My dogs do not go outside when the front or back door opens, they must sit and wait for me to release them. I go first and they wait. This solves the problem of them bolting out the door when it is opened. If both dogs are there they must both sit and wait. I don't put the dogs food down until they sit and focus on my face, then the bowl goes down and they wait till I say "ok". This was the same when I had 3 GSD's, all 3 had to wait until everyone was sitting, calm and focused on my face then they could eat.
I never give my dogs commands that I cannot immediately enforce. Once a dog understands a command it has 1 1/2 to 2 seconds to obey it then I will enforce it. There is no grey area when the dog understands the command. I never scream at my dogs and I never hit
by Slamdunc on 16 July 2009 - 17:07
OK, Sitasmom, you have gotten some very good advice here from Amanda, Debi, Tess and Tasha. Since you are serious I'll add my 2 cents. First you wrote:
I spend 20 minutes per dog before going to work. 20 minutes when I get home and another 20 minutes per dog just before bed time......that's an hour a day per dog.......how much time do you spend per dog?
Honestly, I don't spend that much time on formal obedience with my dogs each day. With a 9 month old puppy I might do 4 or 5 minutes tops and put the dog away. With my current dog, who is now 3 years old I do about 10 minutes and stop. At the end of 10 minutes my dog is pretty tired. I do my obedience in drive and expect total concentration, focus and high energy. I may play for a couple of minutes after I finish but that's it. If I have time I may do a second session later in the day, that would be ideal for me. My dogs would be too tired to do 20 minutes of high energy obedience and so would I. Remember the SchH obedience routine is also only about 10 minutes.
I should mention that my dogs have two sets of commands, German and English. Only I use the German commands and they are reserved for training and working. They have different meanings to the dog. Fuss means heel with total focus and attention while heel means walk next to me shoulder to my knee, but you can look around. Fuss is for obedience, Heel may be used while I'm working or in protection when I want the dog to focus on the decoy. Easy means don't pull on the leash lets just walk. I rarely tell my dogs to heel, except going through a crowd where I want the dog to heel close to me but watch people around me as well. Fuss is only for sport work and it puts the dog into drive and focus.
It's quality not quantity. I rarely do the SchH heeling pattern, rather I break each exercise down to it's fundamentals and work on that for several training sessions. If I am working on the sit out of motion for example, I may work that exercise for a week of training sessions and nothing else. Only 4 or 5 minutes, maybe 8 - 10 reps each session, but this varies too depending how well the progression is going. I do the same for the platz, stand, dumbbell, the voraus takes a little longer in the sessions.
I plan each obedience, tracking or protection session before I go out on the field. I have specific exercises to teach or issues to proof or work on.
As far as general behavior goes I am very consistent. My dogs are never released from a Kennel or crate until they sit or are at least calm. My dogs learn form puppies that barking in a crate will not get them success. They learn the door only opens when they are calm and can contain themselves. I do have specific things I work on in the house. My dogs do not go outside when the front or back door opens, they must sit and wait for me to release them. I go first and they wait. This solves the problem of them bolting out the door when it is opened. If both dogs are there they must both sit and wait. I don't put the dogs food down until they sit and focus on my face, then the bowl goes down and they wait till I say "ok". This was the same when I had 3 GSD's, all 3 had to wait until everyone was sitting, calm and focused on my face then they could eat.
I never give my dogs commands that I cannot immediately enforce. Once a dog understands a command it has 1 1/2 to 2 seconds to obey it then I will enforce it. There is no grey area when the dog understands the command. I never scream at my dogs and I never hit
I spend 20 minutes per dog before going to work. 20 minutes when I get home and another 20 minutes per dog just before bed time......that's an hour a day per dog.......how much time do you spend per dog?
Honestly, I don't spend that much time on formal obedience with my dogs each day. With a 9 month old puppy I might do 4 or 5 minutes tops and put the dog away. With my current dog, who is now 3 years old I do about 10 minutes and stop. At the end of 10 minutes my dog is pretty tired. I do my obedience in drive and expect total concentration, focus and high energy. I may play for a couple of minutes after I finish but that's it. If I have time I may do a second session later in the day, that would be ideal for me. My dogs would be too tired to do 20 minutes of high energy obedience and so would I. Remember the SchH obedience routine is also only about 10 minutes.
I should mention that my dogs have two sets of commands, German and English. Only I use the German commands and they are reserved for training and working. They have different meanings to the dog. Fuss means heel with total focus and attention while heel means walk next to me shoulder to my knee, but you can look around. Fuss is for obedience, Heel may be used while I'm working or in protection when I want the dog to focus on the decoy. Easy means don't pull on the leash lets just walk. I rarely tell my dogs to heel, except going through a crowd where I want the dog to heel close to me but watch people around me as well. Fuss is only for sport work and it puts the dog into drive and focus.
It's quality not quantity. I rarely do the SchH heeling pattern, rather I break each exercise down to it's fundamentals and work on that for several training sessions. If I am working on the sit out of motion for example, I may work that exercise for a week of training sessions and nothing else. Only 4 or 5 minutes, maybe 8 - 10 reps each session, but this varies too depending how well the progression is going. I do the same for the platz, stand, dumbbell, the voraus takes a little longer in the sessions.
I plan each obedience, tracking or protection session before I go out on the field. I have specific exercises to teach or issues to proof or work on.
As far as general behavior goes I am very consistent. My dogs are never released from a Kennel or crate until they sit or are at least calm. My dogs learn form puppies that barking in a crate will not get them success. They learn the door only opens when they are calm and can contain themselves. I do have specific things I work on in the house. My dogs do not go outside when the front or back door opens, they must sit and wait for me to release them. I go first and they wait. This solves the problem of them bolting out the door when it is opened. If both dogs are there they must both sit and wait. I don't put the dogs food down until they sit and focus on my face, then the bowl goes down and they wait till I say "ok". This was the same when I had 3 GSD's, all 3 had to wait until everyone was sitting, calm and focused on my face then they could eat.
I never give my dogs commands that I cannot immediately enforce. Once a dog understands a command it has 1 1/2 to 2 seconds to obey it then I will enforce it. There is no grey area when the dog understands the command. I never scream at my dogs and I never hit
by SitasMom on 16 July 2009 - 19:07
so maybe I'm over working the dogs.....they seem to enjoy it ...I don't to the BH pattern from start to finish either.
For example......
Sita is working on "front sit to basic position (sitting at heel)". We repeat it until she gets it right then she gets a reward. Then we do it a few more time sucessfully always with a reward. (5 to 8 minutes)
Once the main focus is completed, then we "play catch me if you can" - she loves this game of trying to keep at heel when I'm running, turning stopping and just acting irraticly. This perks her up and makes her work fun. (1 to 3 minutes)
After that we might work on a few other quick commands that she already knows and then we play fetch for a few mintues. (5 to 8 ninutes)
Then we will end the session with a few more of the first exersises with rewards for doing it correct, then a few more throws of the ball. (3 to 5 minutes)
It usually takes about 20 minutes more or less.
I may be doing it all wrong, but is seems to work for us and Sita looks forward to her turn.
For example......
Sita is working on "front sit to basic position (sitting at heel)". We repeat it until she gets it right then she gets a reward. Then we do it a few more time sucessfully always with a reward. (5 to 8 minutes)
Once the main focus is completed, then we "play catch me if you can" - she loves this game of trying to keep at heel when I'm running, turning stopping and just acting irraticly. This perks her up and makes her work fun. (1 to 3 minutes)
After that we might work on a few other quick commands that she already knows and then we play fetch for a few mintues. (5 to 8 ninutes)
Then we will end the session with a few more of the first exersises with rewards for doing it correct, then a few more throws of the ball. (3 to 5 minutes)
It usually takes about 20 minutes more or less.
I may be doing it all wrong, but is seems to work for us and Sita looks forward to her turn.
by SitasMom on 19 July 2009 - 04:07
2 weeks from Sits'a BH - she did great at practice today, on leash she was PERFECT and off leash she was just as perfect UNTILL Hero started barking............they her brain went to mush. It happened right after the 12 fast steps , 12 slow steps, 12 regular steps. I made the right turn she looked at me and headed straight for the car where Hero was kenneled and barking.............Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
Hero is NOT invited to the trials!
Hero is NOT invited to the trials!
by Slamdunc on 20 July 2009 - 02:07
She's not ready for the BH then. I would tie Hero out and make her work the entire routine in front of him. I would correct her for loss of focus and reward when she is focused. I will often bring my two dogs on the field, one goes into a long down while I heel the other dog around, stepping over and in fornt of the downed dog. Then I'll throw the toy as a reward for the dog that is heeling and the dog in the "platz" is not allowed to move. I'll actually heel one dog over the other dogs legs, back etc. The dog that is heeling must focus on me and is not allowed to even look at the other dog.
My dogs would never run off the field while we're working. I am way more exciting and fun to my dogs than other dogs are.
Seriously, if what you described happened to me with one of my dogs 2 weeks before the BH I would not enter until the dog is fully prepared. Hero is not the problem, there will be other barking dogs at the trial for sure. Why didn't you recall her before she got to the car? There are 2 ways to fail the BH for sure: 1: breaking the long down. 2: leaving the field and not being able to recall your dog. If you are doing the BH at your local club you might pass; but I don't think you are ready.
JMO,
Jim
My dogs would never run off the field while we're working. I am way more exciting and fun to my dogs than other dogs are.
Seriously, if what you described happened to me with one of my dogs 2 weeks before the BH I would not enter until the dog is fully prepared. Hero is not the problem, there will be other barking dogs at the trial for sure. Why didn't you recall her before she got to the car? There are 2 ways to fail the BH for sure: 1: breaking the long down. 2: leaving the field and not being able to recall your dog. If you are doing the BH at your local club you might pass; but I don't think you are ready.
JMO,
Jim
by SitasMom on 21 July 2009 - 10:07
Sita was almost flawless yesterday, and the puppy was on the other side of the fence barking like crazy!
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