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by LOVE THY SHEPHERD on 12 July 2013 - 18:07
Again, it's really nobody's business who I breed my dogs to. I have a nice bitch and the lines
are what I want to breed to. I don't have to explain myself anymore. It's not my business who
you breed your dogs to !
Once in awhile it would be nice just to here the words, Good Luck and hope the breeding goes well.
are what I want to breed to. I don't have to explain myself anymore. It's not my business who
you breed your dogs to !
Once in awhile it would be nice just to here the words, Good Luck and hope the breeding goes well.
by Xira on 12 July 2013 - 20:07
Yes, it IS expensive to OFA or "a" stamp hips/elbows, DNA, Train and Title, Show and Koer our dogs. It also takes a long time to do things right... the hours and money I put into my dogs I will never get back....but what you do get back is knowing you have done the right and ethical thing for the betterment of the breed. This is not just my opinion, but fact.
My post has nothing to do with Mailo, he looks like a great dog!
My post has nothing to do with Mailo, he looks like a great dog!
by Slamdunc on 12 July 2013 - 21:07
"Good luck" is something I would tell any perspective puppy buyers that are looking at a litter from parents that are untitled, untested, and have no heath checks. Expecially when this goes on for generation after generation of untitled, untested, and no x rays. Good luck and I hope the breeding goes well..... Because you are counting on having good luck.
by Blitzen on 12 July 2013 - 21:07
WE should be glad that you say you are going to test your dogs before breeding them? Are you kidding?
I won't withhold good luck wishes, but those wishes would apply to anyone who buys a GSD from an unxrayed parent or parents. I don't care who the breeder or the dog/s are. It's just irresponsible and smacks of BYB tactics period.
I won't withhold good luck wishes, but those wishes would apply to anyone who buys a GSD from an unxrayed parent or parents. I don't care who the breeder or the dog/s are. It's just irresponsible and smacks of BYB tactics period.
by Cesna on 12 July 2013 - 22:07
Donna... Farah was sold with hip xrays for the 'a' stamp, not OFA, and these xrays can still be sent in to either USCA or GSDCA-WDA for the stamp....I do not OFA any of my dogs..All x-rays are taken for the a-stamp program.
by Jenni78 on 13 July 2013 - 00:07
Donna, how did the breeding come about? What did Parrish think of your bitch? What did he say when you told him your female had no xrays? What convinced him to go ahead and allow the planned breeding? Or, did you ever speak to Parrish about the breeding at all? Are you sure he plans to breed to an un-titled female? If so, that would be the first time he's ever done that.
Parrish's breeding ethics are now under fire for this posting; I think it's only fair that you explain the situation.
Parrish's breeding ethics are now under fire for this posting; I think it's only fair that you explain the situation.
by troopscott on 13 July 2013 - 01:07
First off his breeding ethics are not under fire for this post. What you guys fail to realize bomber Malio roxy catty and every dog he owns are his. If he wants to breed them to a poodle and start a new breed called shepoodles that is his business and not mine yours or anyone else's.
Let it go before Malio diss appears from the stud list like bomber did
Let it go before Malio diss appears from the stud list like bomber did
by hexe on 13 July 2013 - 01:07
Surprising though it may seem, I can't help it: I'm having to stand up and point out, in Love Thy Shepherd's defense, two very pertinent facts in regard to where this discussion has turned.
First off, she has been repeatedly taken to task on this forum for breeding despite not having hip and elbow clearances on her dogs--I've done so myself, and make no apologies for it because I think it's an unethical practice. That said, it's only fair to apply the same tarring to Cessna's having bred the bitch she sold to LTS, since Cessna herself whelped a litter out of that bitch without having the hip & elbow clearances completed as well--yeah, the radiographs were done for submission to the SV, but they weren't submitted, so if LTS does the same thing, how is that any worse than what was done by the previous owner?
Second point of fact: Again, LTS should not continue to breed dogs that don't have the appropriate health clearances. But she also shouldn't be flat-out aided in doing so by others who are considered to be well-respected individuals in the breed...and since I can't imagine that LTS would be audacious enough to falsely proclaim that Osborn permitted his stud dog to breed with one of her lacking-hip-&-elbow-certification females, then it would appear that this is precisely what took place.
I don't personally know any of the parties involved, and I have been brutal in my comments to LTS before, and will likely be again if she continues to ignore the basic ethics of dog breeding, but I also can't deny that there are others who cross those lines at times and naught is said about it...and that's definitely not fair play.
With that said--
LTS, you've said that you're slowly getting your breeding dogs health clearances addressed, but that it's expensive and takes time. Given that you produce at least one litter per year, however, you would earn yourself some respect in the dog community if you made it a point to set aside the monies you get for one puppy per litter and used that to have the radiographs and OFA evaluation completed on the NEXT dog you're planning on breeding BEFORE you do that breeding. I know what it costs to have the films shot and what the OFA fees are--the total is less than the price you sell your pups for, so there's no excusing not having it done on the basis of financial hardship. You'd have your breeding stock all accounted for in pretty quickly if you committed yourself to doing that--but you'd also have to remove any dogs from your program if they fail to certify with sound hips and/or elbows. Right now, the impression you project is that you're only in it for the money, and by not having the certifications, you're able to claim you have no reason to think that you are breeding unsound animals....but IMO you have even less reason to think you're breeding sound ones since you've never even had so much as a prelim done on them. Since you already have Farrah's films in hand for the 'a' stamp, I think you could go that route for her; if not, I don't see why those couldn't be submitted for OFA--they would have to be submitted by the vet that did them, but it ought to be far less expensive to have that vet submit the films for you than to have her x-rayed again...and the OFA fee is only $35 for just hips, and only $40 for hips & elbows rated at the same time. Just DO it.
First off, she has been repeatedly taken to task on this forum for breeding despite not having hip and elbow clearances on her dogs--I've done so myself, and make no apologies for it because I think it's an unethical practice. That said, it's only fair to apply the same tarring to Cessna's having bred the bitch she sold to LTS, since Cessna herself whelped a litter out of that bitch without having the hip & elbow clearances completed as well--yeah, the radiographs were done for submission to the SV, but they weren't submitted, so if LTS does the same thing, how is that any worse than what was done by the previous owner?
Second point of fact: Again, LTS should not continue to breed dogs that don't have the appropriate health clearances. But she also shouldn't be flat-out aided in doing so by others who are considered to be well-respected individuals in the breed...and since I can't imagine that LTS would be audacious enough to falsely proclaim that Osborn permitted his stud dog to breed with one of her lacking-hip-&-elbow-certification females, then it would appear that this is precisely what took place.
I don't personally know any of the parties involved, and I have been brutal in my comments to LTS before, and will likely be again if she continues to ignore the basic ethics of dog breeding, but I also can't deny that there are others who cross those lines at times and naught is said about it...and that's definitely not fair play.
With that said--
LTS, you've said that you're slowly getting your breeding dogs health clearances addressed, but that it's expensive and takes time. Given that you produce at least one litter per year, however, you would earn yourself some respect in the dog community if you made it a point to set aside the monies you get for one puppy per litter and used that to have the radiographs and OFA evaluation completed on the NEXT dog you're planning on breeding BEFORE you do that breeding. I know what it costs to have the films shot and what the OFA fees are--the total is less than the price you sell your pups for, so there's no excusing not having it done on the basis of financial hardship. You'd have your breeding stock all accounted for in pretty quickly if you committed yourself to doing that--but you'd also have to remove any dogs from your program if they fail to certify with sound hips and/or elbows. Right now, the impression you project is that you're only in it for the money, and by not having the certifications, you're able to claim you have no reason to think that you are breeding unsound animals....but IMO you have even less reason to think you're breeding sound ones since you've never even had so much as a prelim done on them. Since you already have Farrah's films in hand for the 'a' stamp, I think you could go that route for her; if not, I don't see why those couldn't be submitted for OFA--they would have to be submitted by the vet that did them, but it ought to be far less expensive to have that vet submit the films for you than to have her x-rayed again...and the OFA fee is only $35 for just hips, and only $40 for hips & elbows rated at the same time. Just DO it.
by steve1 on 13 July 2013 - 01:07
troopscott
When i put my post on this thread, i did it just to say what i thought what a breedable dog should have before being bred from. I did not say it to down the Ops Dog or anyone else,s dog. What they do is up to them and it will always remain that way.
However what gives you the right to speak up for Mr Evans and in fact in doing so give the rest of us a bollicking for posting on the subject if someone posts on here then others have the right to reply
I know you have visted his Kennels as you have said but i do not think that Mr Evans needs you or gives you the right to act as spokesman for him. i think he is more than capable of sticking up for himself?
Steve1
When i put my post on this thread, i did it just to say what i thought what a breedable dog should have before being bred from. I did not say it to down the Ops Dog or anyone else,s dog. What they do is up to them and it will always remain that way.
However what gives you the right to speak up for Mr Evans and in fact in doing so give the rest of us a bollicking for posting on the subject if someone posts on here then others have the right to reply
I know you have visted his Kennels as you have said but i do not think that Mr Evans needs you or gives you the right to act as spokesman for him. i think he is more than capable of sticking up for himself?
Steve1
by troopscott on 13 July 2013 - 02:07
You are correct he does not need me to speak up for him. I am just pointing out the simple fact that what is going on here is what started in the bomber thread where he pulled him from stud. I wasn't addressing you anyway
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