Bomber vom wolfshiem - Page 7

Paul, in the bottom row of boxes above where you write your post is a box with a link, along with a flag.  Click on the link symbol and paste your link in the URL box provided.

Thank you RS. You can teach and old dog new tricks.

I cannot see how one can think that way. Genes are more complicated than trying to win the lottery, We just do not know what any pup will be given even in repeat matings, the genes are from the same parents but in what balance or mix are they given no one knows until the final deed is done? If you take two Dogs as an example Eros von der Monhwiese and his brother Ellute.
Now many Guys on the forum say or think that Ellute was or is the better of the two brothers as a breeder a very debatable subject. and Eros was by far the better of the two on the work field but Ellute was no mug himself. Now Eros bred a WUSV winner and Ellute has bred some top IPO dogs other types of work i do not know off. but you still cannot say that these two dogs were great breeders unless there Children do the same not all but a very good percent to carry on the line to the next generation.
 Nothing is any good once a the line declines, and the way back from that point is very hard to overcome in any livestock. The first thing we lose is vitality and once you lose that then there is a lot of problems.
Steve1

The genetics are very complicated and the more you know about them the better the science of breeding becomes. The bottom line is a good dog is where you find it. Breeding quality animals to quality animals greatly increases your chance of quality offspring. But if you breed genetically superior animals your chances are even better. Some quality animals have better genetics then other quality animals.

The problem with breeding working dogs is there are so many different things that we need and require to make what is necessary to do the work, and when people want different things in the same breed it becomes even more difficult.

"Livestock breeding is very different in a lot  of ways. It is mostly structure and all are food. In livestock you eat your culls, and even the culls can reproduce food. All of the other benefits are real nice and cost saving and fetch more money but are not necessary to become their main objective, food.  Every single one is different....."

Paul and others, i think you are seriously downplaying the complexity in the traits in farm animals, IT IS NOT JUST MORE MEAT, back a generation or so it was just that, those guys either changed or had to get other jobs - the market is consumer driven and consumers are WAAAAY more discerning and savvy these days, used to be producer driven ie;

we grow - you eat it, now it's all about, we eat it - you grow it.

couldn't be bothered going into the technical level, the complexity and uniformity that the food market demands these days and the challenges that makes for breeders, that's your ignorance not mine. i really don't believe breeding dogs is a higher level of complexity, i just believe there is a lower intellectual will or level of people doing it who are not willing to engage the science, instead they focus on; the marketing, the myths, the fantasy and the training to achieve their goals.

not meaning to offend and i have never bred a litter of gsd, just stating my opinions which are worth as much as you paid for them
 

vk4gsd
I know the complexity of raising and breeding in a cow/calf operation and the demands to breed a better animal, I have done that as well as bred several breed of dogs most of my life. I did down play the livestock. The point is there are so much more aspects of a working dog then a single cow/bull. My point was that a dog has to fill a lot more spots in our human lives where cattle are bred for one basic purpose and that is food. Yes I want parasite resistance. quality structure one that caves on her own, gains weight quickly, has good feet, and stays home, ect ect ect. But a dog has to all of that plus all of the things to live with a human and be able to do the job in which we demand. Just a broader amount of things to breed for.


I am not offended in any way. I enjoy the disccusion.

vk4gsd, we ask much, much more from our dogs than we do from our livestock as far as performance traits are concerned--and unlike with dog breeding [at least in most places], when breeding livestock we can eat our mistakes just as easily as the successes. [I have a small cow/calf beef operation here, and work with livestock regularly as part of my job, too.]

Just saw this ad for a Bomber puppy, and though it might be of interest to those who are posting in this thread: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/classifieds.viewad?adid=191387