HELP ME!! 10 month old, chronic diarrhea, giardia?? - Page 3

Hey a couple of things.  I will never use metro long term or repeatedly for a dog that belongs to me.  it can have bad side effects and there are other antis to use.  My EPI boy NEVER had yellow cow pies.  so if i were you I would be running EPI cobalamin and folate tests.  those tests can give you an insight into what is happening or not happening in the intestines.

The digestive enzymes had no effect though, do you still think I should check for EPI?

I just worry about balancing the diet on raw. I wish there was raw "cookbook" that I could use, so I wouldn't be guessing. That part is what makes me nervous.

I'm going to ask her breeder. She was on raw with her and her first few poops were ok, but shortly after coming home the diarrhea started. Maybe it is an allergy, that might explain why the Metro had no effect this time. It always upsets her tummy, but usually a couple of days once she's off things get better. Not this time.

I would definitely test the TLI for EPI. The only way to confirm EPI is with a TLI (Trypsin-Like Immunoreactivity) blood test. This will either confirm or eliminate that as a factor in her illness.  My young boy had an extremely bad case of giardia at about the same age.  Their immune systems are not well developed at that age and they can get it pretty bad. He was confirmed with giardia by lab tests.  He was on both metro and Panacur (fenbendazole).  But after 2 treatments for two weeks, two weeks apart, and a grain free raw diet change, he came right back to normal, but it took about six weeks to get there.  My vet told me to cover the diarrhea spots in the yard with lime which you can buy at a feed store.

if you did not use porcine based enzymes, they would not work for an EPI dog.  if you used the wrong amount they would not work.  If you keep making multiple changes all over the place, you will never know what works and what does not.  like with an EPI dog, I suggest making a notebook with changes made, dates etc.  Try one thing at a time and leave it be for few days.  so maybe you switch her to raw.  don't also add pumpkin or enzymes at the same time.  Yes, I would run a tli, folate, cobalamin, and possibly Iga test.  Iga deficiency leads to celiac like issues among other things.

Could she just be reinfecting herself with coccidia?  I am trapping rabbit and tossing poop i see on the snow as they look just like treats.  Ha the water changed in anyway?
 

Your 1st post.."treating the symptoms"... yes, you are correct.

Your dog's gut, for whatever reason, or combination of reasons, is inflamed and the inflammation is causing your symptoms.

As many have pointed out, there are a variety of things that will cause the chronic inflammation..

You'll have to slowly try different things.. until you isolate the exact cause/causes.


Raw food does not have to be complicated. You can make a cooked diet to start, then add manufactured frozen raw, then in time, select different dry foods to add, if you desire.

To the cooked diet, try something called "ARABINOGALACTIN powder".. made by Vetri-science.  It uses larch tree extract.  KV Vet supply carries this.

Also talk with your vet about using something called TYLAN powder. They can mix this in a correct dosage for your dog's weight.  It can be used for weeks/months low dose and is less toxic than the Albon/Flagyl.


Some dogs enjoy snacking on their poo..  this can cause recurring problems. 


PM me for the homemade diet or any other information, and I will scan and send it to you..

Your goal in this is to increase your dog's immune system enough that it naturally fights off any parasites/bacteria that it encounters during its lifetime, without all of the medical intervention.
Sometimes they just need a little bit of help to get back into "stasis" or balance.






 

I have had unexplainable gastric upsets following rabies shots in young dogs (4-6 months).  Also could be something else involved such as a tick borne disease if you haven't looked into that yet.  I use doxycycline whenever I suspects tick borne diseases but it is not a good treatment if the dog has gastric problems unless you have a reason to suspect tick borne diseases.  The tick borne diseases attack different body systems and can have many different symptoms as well as change over time to new symptoms.  There are more tick borne pathogens than we have tests for so that a snap test for the major 4 only rules out the major 4 and not the 2-4 additional ones that are emerging.  Lyme did not happen in dogs according to vets until 10 year after human discovery because they said Lyme did not affect dogs.  Lyme was always there in dogs but not diagnosed properly.

Hi there,

Here is my best suggestion for your situation. I did not have a chance to read all the reply hence I'm hoping that I'm not repeating something already said.

First I hope that your vet has treated your dog with Metro for at least 5 days in a raw. 500 mg in the morning 500 mg in the evening. If I remember correctly each Metro tablet is 250 mg, hence you will need to administer 2 tables twice per day (preferably in the morning and in the evening). This dosing is based on the weigh of your dog (70 pounds).

It is to note that Metro has only 60% to 70% (67% to be exact) effectives against Giardia.

Metro should theoretically also stop your dogs diarrhea as its a common drug used to fight / prevent unexplained colitis cases.
After round of Metro treatment I would suggest to put your dog on some sort of probiotic in order to increase good flora in the GI.
I strongly suggest Forti Flora probiotic although some people do not like it because of animal digest substance in it and its not cheap here in Canada, however it is proven to work the best. Cheaper alternatives (but not effective as Forti Flora) to Forti Flora are: Wholistic Digest All Plus or Wholistic Acidophilus supplements.

If your dog is not in line with Metro antibiotic, then you should try (which you already did) using Panacur for Giardia treatment (93% effectiveness). Dosing in your case based on the weight of your dog should be 8 grams (2 x 4 grams packs) each day for consecutive 3 to 5 days (in your case based on your description I would suggest minimum 5 days). After this treatment I would also suggest using a probiotic such as Forti Flora.

In order to stop diarrhea and bring balance and sootiness to GI  I suggest the homeopathic remedy of Slippery Elm.
You can get Slippery Elm powder in each organic food / supplement store in Canada. Little size bag of 300 to 500 grams should not cost more than $15.

How to prepare Slippery Elm remedy and what you will need:

1 cup of cold water
2 rounded tea spoons of Slippery Elm powder
1 tea spoon of bee honey (not necessary but can be used in order to make it more palatable)

Add 2 rounded tea spoons of Slippery Elm powder (and 1 tea spoon of  honey if you wish) into 1 cup of cold water.
Steer everything well together. You should get a jelly like substance. If its too watery you can add little more Slippery Elm powder to make it jelly type substance.
Simmer everything together over a low/medium heat on your stove for 3 to 5 minutes. Remove from the stove and cool it down to the room temperature.

Administer room temperature cooled jelly substance to your dog 3 to 4 times per day each time giving 3 to 4 soups spoons of jelly substance minimum 2 hours before giving diarrhea appropriate meal (as probably suggested in previous posts).
Depending on the diarrhea stopping progress decrease the administration of this home remedy gradually.
If you wish you can continue to give this to your dog now and then in order to keep his/her GI soothed.
Keep the jelly substance at the room temperature for up to 5 days. After that if not completely used, you will need to make another batch.
Please note that I do not suggest using this supplement on a daily basis with your dog if he/she is not showing signs of diarrhea as it can hamper the nutrition absorption of the food taken in by your dog. Hence the recommendation to use it maybe 1 or 2 times per week after the diarrhea has been controlled.
I have used this remedy on my dog and it did work wonders with his diarrhea.


I have no any strong suggestion on how to prevent reinfection except to clean up the faces of your dog and other farm animals (horses) ASAP.

I hope that this will help your dog overcome the Giardia infection.

Good luck to you and your dog

 

Darcy, I might have used the wrong enzymes. I have not made a bunch of changes all over the place, she's been on the same food for ages, the one time I had to put her on Orijen because they could not get the Acana in after the plant fire and it was the closest thing I could find to match her current food. I tried the enzymes for a couple of weeks, did nothing and the vet thought she's not an EPI dog, although I have not done the test, that is something I should maybe look into. That was months ago. Also her weight is good, EPI dogs are usually really underweight aren't they?

I recently started trying the probiotics and pumpkin, but again, otherwise I have not changed her food.

She is never off leash, so she does not get a chance to eat poo, although she does grab mouthfuls of snow when she can. Vet checked for coccidia a few times and said she was negative.

I'm going to call my vet again, maybe test for the EPI, if that comes back negative, I'm definitely willing to try raw. If nothing else I will know exactly what is in her food, which will make it easier to see if she has dietary sensitivities.

DenWolf, I think her immune system is likely very stressed at this point, poor thing. I'd imagine she can't get ahead of things  :(  I'll PM you!

I'll keep you guys posted, thanks for the replies

Here's an old thread, one of many, in which I mention my dog's digestive issues... http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=479845-feeding-puppies--weight-gain Honestly, your experiences sound similar to mine (multiple rounds of metronidazole, flagyl, etc. that works...and then recurring diarrhea). The raw food helped him a lot. He does not have EPI. Possibly....has idiopathic SIBO or ARD. Either he is intolerant of something in kibble, can't digest it, or something about kibble promotes the overgrowth of bacteria more than raw food, as I have not had a single episode of diarrhea from him since switching. Worth a shot with your dog. After the upteenth time cleaning up diarrhea and having to deal with vets and neighbors thinking you are starving your dog....you will try anything!

Oh, and he also does fine on Honest Kitchen dog food, which to me is similar to home-cooked.

"I think her immune system is likely very stressed at this point, poor thing. I'd imagine she can't get ahead of things."  I think this may be a large part of the residual problems from giardia.