There is no such thing as Dominance in Dogs - Page 2

I don´t even understand the reason of this discussion...

Hi all, 

Thanks for the replies, and I do pretty much agree with all of you. 

"What their approach never seems to allow for is the "horses for courses"
approach, the view that admits there is no one training recipe to suit all
dogs, so we should be prepared to use all the tools in the box to work out
what fits."

- I think this is super well said and pertinent, it always has to be a dogma when it academia for some reason.

And I think the author seeking out controversial in conclusion is exactly, right. Reading it after his article it almost feels out of place.

Susie, I am not the most experienced dog person and I have tried to learn all I can, and there are people here with a lot of knowledge, so I thought I would ask.

But it does seems like you all come to the same conclusions as me.

I dont mean to undermine behaviourists at all, I know a wonderful behaviourist quite well. it just alarmed me that this is what is being taught, and to my novice ears at the time and thankfully to all of also, it just sounded so awfully wrong. 

 

 

 

Joanro, thank you, I just wanted a confirmation for the definition of dog dominance, because I was thinking it includes more than just the rank but now I know it's related only to rank in pack.

Ibrahim

The most horrifying thing I hear over and over again from University Grads is " when I went to university I learned to think". Hmmmm. What did you do before that?

Having taught High School, I can tell you. They learned to regurgitate what the teacher told them, or what they THINK the teacher wants to hear, and what they learned from the books. The few essay/short answer questions on tests are always very poorly done.  Oh, and cheating on the multiple choice questions which form the majority of the tests and exams is rampant.

What most people don't realize is that dogs communicate dominance in very subtle ways: through posture and scent. It's not 'nature red in tooth and claw!'

If anyone has a dominance question, they need to come watch my pack for a while.  Although I am top dog to all, they have an order within themselves and Baron is the big boss no doubt.  When he barks, all the rest listen.

(I call them my little mafia gang.      Baron is the God Father.  Bane is the terminator.  Rose is the pretty thing that gets what she wants.  Cirberus runs the casinos.   Max......well, he collects the dues and lives for snuggles.)

I think you spelled her qualifications wrong,
What you should have wrote is Dip-Shit...

hahahahaha kitkat I can't stop laughing at that. I don't know where someone would come up with the idea that there are no dominance in dogs. without dominance and submission, there would be no pack hierarchy, no alpha dog, and really no pack in general. and given that dogs are pack animals, and that some are more submissive than others, and some are more dominant than others, I'm going to say that this is BS.

I think there was some disconnect with the person the OP was speaking with...because I've yet to meet any ethologist or behaviorist who truly know their subjects who would make such a ridiculous statement as to claim that there's no such thing as dominance or hiearchy in dogs.  Perhaps the discussion was not in the behaviorist's native language?  That's about the only way I can see someone who would recommend the references cited making such an absurd declaration--conflicts of translation of some sort. 

Now, if the behaviorist in question was intending to convey that humans too often have a huge misconception as to exactly what the term 'dominance' means as it pertains to the interaction between dogs [or other canids], and further what applicability the concept has with regard to the interaction between dogs and humans, then that would make more sense--and it's in keeping with the general positions of all of the authors referenced.  But no dominance or hiearchy in the canid world? Rubbish! 

OP, if you want the science you will have to access actual scientific papers not books. books are written to be sold, nothing sells better than a bit of controversy. most scientific papers are free - i doubt if much % of the public have ever seen one or know they exist.

The world would be nice and fluffy and safe if mammals didn't function via dominance and submission.