Pinch Collars and Choke Chains? - Page 2

Pirates Lair. Bit of a harsh reaction to Avery Hill Kennels response, especially considering that the information is spot on. Fawndallas is doing their research by asking for advice in this forum. You could have simply suggested that they do their due diligence which would include talking to an experienced trainer.

I don't use choke collars, as I don't see a use for them in training my dogs.

I use pinch collars for training, walks, potty breaks, basically all the time. As I was growing up, my family had a Golden Retriever, perfectly behaved with no formal training, never needed a pinch or choke. Just a flat. But now that I have two GSD's and a crazy little Aussie mix, pinch collars are my best friend. I would say that pinch collars are not meant to be used on every dog, but neither are flat collars. My dogs have high drive and high energy. Sometimes they just need that correction from a pinch when they're all worked up that would, with a choke or flat collar, damage their trachea/neck.
 
I have worked my dogs in bitework with their pinches on - for short periods - and they don't even notice when they're pulling on it. In my opinion, it really depends on the kind of dog you have and what their disposition calls for. But to answer your question... I think generally speaking (there are obviously always exceptions), you CAN get the same result with a flat collar, but it will take loads more work and patience.

Thanks minro.

I use pinch collar only during main obedience and 'behavior' training then I'm fazing out to choke chain. Well fitted pinch collar works wonders on those hard headed, strong teenagers with thick mane...  They usually train themselves pretty quick. Also correction of the unwanted behavior is more to the point instead of a 'constant nagging' of the choke chain. I use Herm Sprenger - it has more rounded ends and no quick-release. They can snap open pretty easily...
 
Short fitted medium choke chain with toggle for show and normal go around as I usually don't use it for training or corrections . However I've seen people hang their dogs on choke chains many times.
 
My dogs usually don't have flat collars as it destroys their fur. I use them mainly in combination with pinch collar during training as a 'positioning' handle.

I use a pinch for just about everything...I call it power steering.  Echo ignores a flat or rolled collar and the fursaver doesn't get her attention.  She self corrects with a pinch.  I will never use a choke chain again.  They are dangerous and dogs will choke themselves out pulling against them...and I'm not talking about hanging them.  If you have doubts about the pinch, put it around your bare arm and give it a snap.  All collars will work if used correctly but the choke chain will continue to tighen to the point where you can't snap it if your dog is ignoring it and has hit the end of the leash.  Don't even consider one.  Good luck and be patient.  The dog only wants to please you.  Remember that.

Any training tool can injure a dog if used incorrectly.  While it is possible to damage the trachea and hyoid of a dog with a slip collar, this does not happen when the collar is used correctly.  It is possible to do similar damage with a buckle collar if it is used incorrectly.  It is possible to damage a dog's eyes or cervical vertebrae if a head collar is used incorrectly.  It is possible to bruise or even puncture a dog's neck skin if a prong collar is used incorrectly.

However, none of these tools will harm a dog if used correctly.

If a dog is started off correctly from puppy-hood, special training devices are unlikely to be needed.  If the pup learns loose leash walking before he is 3 months old, he is far less likely to pull on the leash when he is older.  The exception may be in boisterous adolescents.  Some adolescents forget their brains and turn into canine pinballs or tether balls.  They can injure themselves hitting the end of the leash at high speed and with the full force of their growing inertia.  They can also injure their trainer by knocking them over.  And they can rip the leash out of the trainer's hand and run into traffic.

When boisterous behavior reaches a level of endangering handler or dog, a temporary training device, such as a prong collar, may be warranted.  It should never become a way of life.  It should be used for emergency control, short term, and in conjunction with training to correct the problem behavior, not just manage it.

My pups start on martingales set so that at their tightest they are just against the skin and not restricting.  This is because I've had too many pups manage to squirrel their way out of buckle collars.  When I use a prong collar on a boisterous adolescent, I use a slip collar as backup because I have had even a good Herm Springer prong collar pop open unexpectedly and release a dog.  A slip collar never comes off unexpectedly and unless it is in terrible condition or the wrong size to begin with, it never fails.  My adults work on buckle collars with only two functions:  to provide a place to attach the tags, and a place to attach the leash required by law in my city.  I do not need the collar for control, because my dog is trained.

excellent Stash Kitty and DebiSue.  Thank you for your insight. 

I have taken from this thread:

These collars are only as a back up plan for a hard headed dog. 

Choke chains are as I thought; except for rare conditions, mostly a useless device.  I know my male GSD was "trained" with one.  He has always ignored it completely.  Not sure what his trainer thought he got out of it.

Pinch collars work, but the user must know how to use it correctly.  If you need either collar, go with this one.

Use these sparingly.  A well trained dog generally will not need one.  There are exceptions to this rule; especially on the more driven dogs.  Even they reach a point in their training where the collar is not really needed anymore as "what my human says is law and I must obey."

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Thanks everyone for your input.  I still have one question:

Any trainer recommendations in the Texas area (not restricted to DFW) where I can get hands on training for the pinch collar?  I frequently travel all over Texas and I do not mind a weekend trip.  Oklahoma is ok too. 

Avery Hill Kennels

My response to your post was harsh, and uncalled for.

My apologies




kim

 I have used pinch collars for years and If I had not been shown I would never have made it thru training...thanks to A great german judge many years ago..

I use fur savers and have for 25 years..ALL my dogs go on trips with fur savers hanging on the back of each kennel..never put any dog in any kennel ,  crate or even for playing with collars on..they get hung, lost, and can cause damage..but use them for walking, training and for obedience out in public ..

I never hung a dog nor damaged one with any collar..I could not train without a pinch or a fur saver..I would never put any clothe collars as they mat hair and get dirty looking fast.

I have seen large dogs with flat nylon cord collar slip right out of them in public..the reason for choke collars is to stop the dog immediately....but if dog has not training and has no clue then damage can happen...

Cannot fix stupidity.

Fawn..kudos to you again for doing your research...I have some suggestions in Dallas area..will email you..ok

reality strikes again....(inside joke)

Yr