SV website announcement Team Marlboro Jaguar - Page 13

allanf,
you are a piece of work, I have to give you that. It speaks volumes of your character that admin has to remove some of your remarks due to "sexism". However, it does not surprise me the least. This happens over and over again that some troll signs up here as a new registered user (in your case just a month ago), anonymously of course and starts posting away. When the situation becomes too problematic, the troll disappears - eitehr completely or by reinventing himself with a new user name. What is your fascination with my person that you have to dig through some of my old posts and question my comments from (almost) 4 years ago??? By your own admission, you are new to this. Yet you show your ignorance by questioning my legitimate advice to a second opinion? It should be pretty clear and maybe Jantie can explain this process to you a bit more since he has researched the subject of hd certifications with the SV ad nauseum. However, since you question my reputation and character, I will be happy to elaborate - and please spare me the remark that you are not interested. You are, otherwise you would not have brought it up!!

You give me too much credit to think that a person "of the likes of Silbersee" (quoting you) is able to get the SV to change a hip rating. I recommended an "official second opinion" ("Zweitgutachten" in German) to somebody. This is a normal procedure anywhere. In the case of the SV, until recently Prof. Brass was the first and only official expert who rated hip x-rays for the SV. The expert for a second opinion or in case of a discrepancy (as it was in our case), was/is Prof. Tellhelm who is consulted. A few months ago, Prof. Brass passed away. Prof. Tellhelm now took his spot as the official person authorized to certify hips (he has already been doing that for elbows for years). Regarding our case, Ivy was x-rayed by her co-owner in the U.S. The positioning of her legs was awful, but OFA apparantly is used to that and looked passed it and gave her the (preliminary) rating of "Good". The SV did not and gave her "noch zugelassen". However, the SV has a lot of respect for the expertise of the OFA (afterall, in the early 90s, they temporarily gave them the authorization to rate a-stamps on behalf of them). Since Ivy (the dog) had moved to Germany for her training and titles, we were granted a new x-ray by another vet in Germany, authorized by the SV to take the x-ray. Nothing suspicious or strange about it, just an honest and fair procedure. They gave her a better rating (a-fast normal) due to this vet's and Prof. Brass' new recommendation. We were very relieved and now I advise anybody who is unhappy and had expected a better rating to protest it to have another chance with a new x-ray taken.
I am sorry to go off topic but I do hope that this served to educate allanf on how certain health screenings are done.
Allanf, if you have any more questions regarding the likes of me or anything else, you can always contact me directly. All my contact info is available by clicking on my screen name (unlike yours) and I know that you already mastered the navigation here, because you came up with that old post of mine from 2008.

I quote the english translation which was offered here:

"In contrast to publications stating otherwise, the dog „Team Marlboro Harley“ is not registered in the German stud book and thus cannot be used for breeding under the rules and regulations of the Verein für Deutsche Schäferhunde (SV) e.V."

Now, we have a couple of people on Pedigreedatabase following the different threads.
Most of the people however, do not visit the discussion board, they have no knowledge of the language.
Breeders come to check the Pedigree of dogs!

When they find out Harley was a Junghundklasse-Sieger, they of course would like to use him, so they check where he stands at stud.
"Oh nice! He stands in Germany, there's a website with a nice picture."
So people worldwide turn to a breeder in the center of GSD-world, and find the advertised Harley.
Little do THEY know he is NOT registered and if he mates their female, all progeny will never be pink papered.

Question: Does one have to allow an SV-breeder to advertise as a stud-dog, a dog that will never be registered within the SV??

I think it is absurd. An SV-breeder cannot say: "STUD DOG HARLEY" (on his website), when it is prohibited for Harley to stud.

It is more than absurd. Anyone know the right word? It's preposterous.

Another question: Could the reason one leaves Harley advertised as a stud dog be deliberate?

Is one speculating that foreign breeding rules are NOT as stringent as in Germany, and one will make a lot of money with the strangers that come with their females, unaware of the issues we have discussed here?

"the appropriate findings made of Sweden are expressed in „middle ED“
Exactly how does this grade „middle ED“ in Sweden EQUATE to the SV ED grades????

 

För HD gäller:	För ED gäller:
Ua och A = 1	Ua = 1
B = 2	Lindrig = 2
Grad 1 och C = 3	Måttlig = 3
Grad 2 och D = 4	Kraftig = 4
Grad 3‐4 och E = 5

Ärftlighet och förklaring av HD-ED Poäng

alanf: Thank you for that, however I really need to know precisely how the Swedish ED grades EQUTE to the SV grades.

For example ED grade 2 in Sweden - is it "acceptable for breeding in Sweden?
because ED 2 (fast normal) under the SV system is certainly acceptable for breeding.

ED 3 (nz) under the SV system is certainly acceptable for breeding.

I really want to KNOW rather than ASSUME what the Swedish ED 2 for Jaguar truly means by comparison with the SV ED system.

Nobody prevents you David from taking the trouble and write them.

You will receive first hand information!

Good luck!

David

It's a very pertinent question.

To illustrate the difficulty of making direct comparison, there is an excellent article which compares the German scheme with the Australian scheme. Find it at the very bottom of the following page:
http://www.gsdcouncilaustralia.org/hipelbow.htm#about

I can't find a similar comparison between Sweden and Germany, but here is some more information:
http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.schaferhundklubben.se

If you can follow the above link, click "The club>>Information binder>>Health Committee of>>Health Programs for SchaferTooltip" and you should find a document that states (translated to English):

"Current wording says that parents should have known the status of current ED to register the offspring. From year-end, says the new version to Swedish registered parents born after 01/01/2006 must have ED UA (O) to register the offspring"

My translation of the swedish ED gradings is: "clear (UA), mild, middle, severe". An animal registered for breeding must be "clear". My understanding is that Jaguar was "middle" in the Swedish scheme which roughly equates to the German grading of "Grade 2, Moderate, changes 2 to 5 mm" (grading described in the first-mentioned article above).

Happy to be corrected by someone with more technical knowledge.

Edit: To be registered, an animal's parents must be "clear".

alanf: Thank you - It is obvious that Team Marlboro Harley was registered in Denmark = DKK 03218/2010, 08206000140203 - born 15/01/2010
Breeder: Per Frost, Denmark-Lemvig. Information from German Sieger Show Catalogue 2011.

My query is very simple: Harley was registered in Denmark - His Sire was Sweden ED Grade 2 - Was this Swedish Grade OK with Denmark Registration Authority for them to Register Harley & siblings? OR does the Denmark (Danish) Registration Authority register litters irrespective or ED grades?

It is clearly becoming very important for breeders/purchasers of GSD to understand the health requirements of the various National GSD Registration Authorities, ESPECIALLY when GSD from those various countries are placed very highly at the German Sieger Show. It may be that the BSZS Exhibit has SV HD & ED grades, however breeders/puchasers need to know, at the very least, the parents HD & ED grades and their relevance/comparison to the SV grades. 

I would like to see the SV & World Union SV (WUSV) collect, colate and publish this information for their MEMBERS. The WUSV can be the organisation, through is Member Clubs to obtain this information.

Surely the SV & WUSV can see the international benefits to our BREED - BREEDERS - OWNERS - PROSPECTIVE OWNERS.

In Denmark ED 2 is allowed in breeding, only ED 3 is forbidden.

So far.

inx wrote: In Denmark ED 2 is allowed in breeding, only ED 3 is forbidden.

Therefore it is reasonable to assume that "Jaguar" was indeed ED 2 - otherwise the "Harley" litter could not have been Registered.

The SV use the terminology "Mittlere ED" for "Jaguar" - this same "Mittlere ED" being CONFIRMED by the second x-ray in Sweden and therefore binding. There clearly appears to be an anomaly here which requires an explanation.

If "Jaguar" is indeed ED 2 in Sweden (allowed for breeding in Denmark) and this has also been confirmed with the second x-ray, then the only reason that "Jaguar" appears to have been so severely penalised by the SV is because both Sweden & the SV AGREE that it was a different dog that was x-rayed ED normal in Germany under the SV System. If this indeed was the case, I see no reason whatsoever for his son "Harley" to be punished in any way whatsoever, or indeed for breeders to avoid him with regards to ED concerns.

This situation could and should be absolutely clarified!