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by hexe on 04 November 2011 - 23:11
<sigh>
Yeaah, Herluin96, you absolutely, positively ought to breed this female as soon as possible, because there is a serious shortage of GSDs stemming from randomly-bred backgrounds in Florida these days. In fact, I'm amazed YOU were even able to find one when you purchased your Connie, they're so scarce--however did you manage to find her???
Look. I've got nothing personally against your bitch, since I don't know her, but I have looked at her pedigree: remember your post here, asking "Good bloodlines or not?" 'Cause I do...and my opinion has not changed one whit since then. You love your Connie. You're having fun working with her, and she apparently is quite responsive to you and you've really become 'partners' instead of just 'owner' and 'dog'. Terrific! I'm very happy for you. But Connie is your 'starter' dog--and you frankly do not know enough about bloodlines, training, or evaluating a dog's conformation, health, and breeding worthiness to be bringing yet another poorly thought-out litter into the world. Especially in Florida, where you can't swing a dead mouse by the tail without hitting GSDs that have been abandoned, or are on death row in the shelters, or are waiting patiently with overcrowded breed rescues--so in all honesty, if you go through with the breeding, your buyers will either be friends or family of yours who know your bitch and think she's pretty and are impressed with her aggression, or people who don't know any better and just want a pet so they respond to your ad on Craig'slist and in the Pennysaver...and you'll sell the first pup or two for about $400, and then the rest of the litter will be reduced in price as they get older, start eating more and start needing more care and time from YOU. So maybe you'll sell the rest of the litter at $50-$100 each, and if the litter is big (it usually works out that way with these kind of breedings) you may even have to give one or two away 'to good homes'.
And I'll bet that before they're three years of age, at LEAST half of the litter will end up in a shelter or a rescue, and of the remaining half, a quarter of those will be hit by a car while running loose in their neighborhoods, and the other quarter of them will be half-neglected by the people who bought them.
How do I know you don't know enough to be doing this yet? 'Cause you STILL don't really know anything about your bitch's bloodlines (all gazillion and one of them, since she's not the product of any well-thought out series of breedings either). You don't know enough to be able to defend your choice of stud dogs for her--all you know is that he has a working title, and you think that's enough.
Do the breed a favor. Go to Petfinder.com and look how many German Shepherds in Florida are in dire need of homes. Then, if you can line up 15 confirmed homes for puppies from Connie BEFORE you breed her--and by confirmed, I mean these people pay you a cash deposit of at least $100.00 before Connie is even in heat, let alone bred--I might think there's no harm to be done if you breed her.
But I know you're not going to be able to do that, and you're not going to heed a word anyone says that doesn't agree with your dream. Still, I have to make the effort to get through to you, for no other reason than I hate the idea of perfectly nice, healthy dogs being killed because there aren't enough people willing to take these dogs into their homes...and I don't want to see more of them created.
Yeaah, Herluin96, you absolutely, positively ought to breed this female as soon as possible, because there is a serious shortage of GSDs stemming from randomly-bred backgrounds in Florida these days. In fact, I'm amazed YOU were even able to find one when you purchased your Connie, they're so scarce--however did you manage to find her???
Look. I've got nothing personally against your bitch, since I don't know her, but I have looked at her pedigree: remember your post here, asking "Good bloodlines or not?" 'Cause I do...and my opinion has not changed one whit since then. You love your Connie. You're having fun working with her, and she apparently is quite responsive to you and you've really become 'partners' instead of just 'owner' and 'dog'. Terrific! I'm very happy for you. But Connie is your 'starter' dog--and you frankly do not know enough about bloodlines, training, or evaluating a dog's conformation, health, and breeding worthiness to be bringing yet another poorly thought-out litter into the world. Especially in Florida, where you can't swing a dead mouse by the tail without hitting GSDs that have been abandoned, or are on death row in the shelters, or are waiting patiently with overcrowded breed rescues--so in all honesty, if you go through with the breeding, your buyers will either be friends or family of yours who know your bitch and think she's pretty and are impressed with her aggression, or people who don't know any better and just want a pet so they respond to your ad on Craig'slist and in the Pennysaver...and you'll sell the first pup or two for about $400, and then the rest of the litter will be reduced in price as they get older, start eating more and start needing more care and time from YOU. So maybe you'll sell the rest of the litter at $50-$100 each, and if the litter is big (it usually works out that way with these kind of breedings) you may even have to give one or two away 'to good homes'.
And I'll bet that before they're three years of age, at LEAST half of the litter will end up in a shelter or a rescue, and of the remaining half, a quarter of those will be hit by a car while running loose in their neighborhoods, and the other quarter of them will be half-neglected by the people who bought them.
How do I know you don't know enough to be doing this yet? 'Cause you STILL don't really know anything about your bitch's bloodlines (all gazillion and one of them, since she's not the product of any well-thought out series of breedings either). You don't know enough to be able to defend your choice of stud dogs for her--all you know is that he has a working title, and you think that's enough.
Do the breed a favor. Go to Petfinder.com and look how many German Shepherds in Florida are in dire need of homes. Then, if you can line up 15 confirmed homes for puppies from Connie BEFORE you breed her--and by confirmed, I mean these people pay you a cash deposit of at least $100.00 before Connie is even in heat, let alone bred--I might think there's no harm to be done if you breed her.
But I know you're not going to be able to do that, and you're not going to heed a word anyone says that doesn't agree with your dream. Still, I have to make the effort to get through to you, for no other reason than I hate the idea of perfectly nice, healthy dogs being killed because there aren't enough people willing to take these dogs into their homes...and I don't want to see more of them created.
by vonissk on 05 November 2011 - 05:11
Watson gsd how many Am sl and working lines have you bred together to say you could get just anything? Hate to inform you you can take 2 working lines, or show lines, or Am lines that aren't compatable and get just about anything. Just wanted to ask because I don't think you do know.
By the way to the original poster, what Hexe said. I went back as far as I could on your girl and I failed to see any DDR lines. I don't know why you were reccomended to breed to a DDR dog because when you start with nothing you end up with nothing. Since there is no pic I can't comment on structure or color, but going via pedigree, title your dog, enjoy her and leave the breeding to more experienced folks. BTW to answer your original question you'd be lucky to get $200 for them.
By the way to the original poster, what Hexe said. I went back as far as I could on your girl and I failed to see any DDR lines. I don't know why you were reccomended to breed to a DDR dog because when you start with nothing you end up with nothing. Since there is no pic I can't comment on structure or color, but going via pedigree, title your dog, enjoy her and leave the breeding to more experienced folks. BTW to answer your original question you'd be lucky to get $200 for them.
by Jyl on 05 November 2011 - 06:11
Vonissk
As to her female going back to some DDR dogs. Her female (Connie's) great grandfather on her dams side is Arko Vom Zwickauer Marksteig. Who is mostly DDR..
To answer the OPs post. I would say around 200-300 also.
As to her female going back to some DDR dogs. Her female (Connie's) great grandfather on her dams side is Arko Vom Zwickauer Marksteig. Who is mostly DDR..
To answer the OPs post. I would say around 200-300 also.
by BoCRon on 05 November 2011 - 12:11
There are pics on her website:
http://herluin-shepherds.webs.com
Sorry, can't get the link to copy/paste so putting it in the old-fashioned way.
http://herluin-shepherds.webs.com
Sorry, can't get the link to copy/paste so putting it in the old-fashioned way.
by BoCRon on 05 November 2011 - 12:11
by vonissk on 05 November 2011 - 12:11
Thanks Jyl I didn't know that dog.
by bea on 05 November 2011 - 13:11
I just have a question, this female is sable, if you click on the father's pedigree it says he is black/tan, the mother is also black/tan according to the AKC pedigree, doesn't anyone check the correct color in AKC pedigrees, I think one of the parents probably is sable but recorded wrongly on the pedigree.
by texaspeg49 on 05 November 2011 - 15:11
I'm not a breeder, just a GSD owner and I have to commend you for having your dreams and I might add you seem to be pretty focused. Keep learning, take these suggestions and learn from them, but never give up. But also never forget that you don't want your babies to have a bad life. Think of the puppies first, then you will do the right thing. I enjoyed the website.
by watsongsd on 06 November 2011 - 14:11
Hey vonissk,
I've never bred a litter. I only just left my parent's house so I haven't had a chance to have my OWN dogs, like bought myself, raised etc. I have bought puppies with/for my dad in the past and now my male and female back home have bred. Not the perfect situation to some, but I'm fine with it since I know they will have homes. I only have book knowledge of breeding and genetics but I think we're on the same page. A DDR dog crossed to a Belgian dog may produce a litter with more variation between pupps than a DDR - Czech, or DDR - DDR, or a DDR to a DDR dog of the same line. But all the dogs are working lines. Does what I'm saying make sense to you? I'm just saying that a newbie breeder is taking a chance doing a big outcross or a hard line breeding without good input from someone else who knows the dogs. If she had to be the dam of my first litter I would do the required tests and then look for a stud with atleast one or two recent ancestors in common with her. That way there is atleast some chance of getting the compatibility required to show recessive traits etc. I just assume it'll be hard to get consistancy when the parents are soooo different. With all the outcrossing in her background my instinct(not sure that counts for much with no experience) tells me that her genes have a ton of surprises already... no need to breed to a dog with a ton of recessive traits completely different from many traits she carries. Have you mixed lines before? How does it turn out? If I were to mix lines I would use two dogs that were pretty well line bred or even inbred just so I know that most traits I see in them are recessive and will be passed to every pup in their litters. Then in the next generations i'd just be focusing on finding dogs with the right combination of a few traits. For example, if light eyes were recessive, an inbred/linebred dog should be more likely to be light eyed, or dark eyed through and through without the chance of passing recessive light eyes on to the next generation.
I'd love to hear your opinions on how you should go about such out crosses because all I know is from bio classes and pedigrees.
I've never bred a litter. I only just left my parent's house so I haven't had a chance to have my OWN dogs, like bought myself, raised etc. I have bought puppies with/for my dad in the past and now my male and female back home have bred. Not the perfect situation to some, but I'm fine with it since I know they will have homes. I only have book knowledge of breeding and genetics but I think we're on the same page. A DDR dog crossed to a Belgian dog may produce a litter with more variation between pupps than a DDR - Czech, or DDR - DDR, or a DDR to a DDR dog of the same line. But all the dogs are working lines. Does what I'm saying make sense to you? I'm just saying that a newbie breeder is taking a chance doing a big outcross or a hard line breeding without good input from someone else who knows the dogs. If she had to be the dam of my first litter I would do the required tests and then look for a stud with atleast one or two recent ancestors in common with her. That way there is atleast some chance of getting the compatibility required to show recessive traits etc. I just assume it'll be hard to get consistancy when the parents are soooo different. With all the outcrossing in her background my instinct(not sure that counts for much with no experience) tells me that her genes have a ton of surprises already... no need to breed to a dog with a ton of recessive traits completely different from many traits she carries. Have you mixed lines before? How does it turn out? If I were to mix lines I would use two dogs that were pretty well line bred or even inbred just so I know that most traits I see in them are recessive and will be passed to every pup in their litters. Then in the next generations i'd just be focusing on finding dogs with the right combination of a few traits. For example, if light eyes were recessive, an inbred/linebred dog should be more likely to be light eyed, or dark eyed through and through without the chance of passing recessive light eyes on to the next generation.
I'd love to hear your opinions on how you should go about such out crosses because all I know is from bio classes and pedigrees.
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