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by sachsenwolf on 15 October 2011 - 13:10
I am very sorry for what happened. My jaw hit the floor after reading what you wrote as I am shocked a new buyer would be so incredibly impulsive without consulting you or caring how this would affect you (obviously you had her much longer than they did). This post caused me to immediately revamp my contract. Thank you for that.
My question to you would be is there a physical contract, and if so, can you post your terms here? If not, what is implied on your website or in your verbal agreement? For me, I have a physical contract in place that requires films sent to me (via e-mail is fine) to approve position, then to the OFA, AND at my discretion I can have them read or done again by my vet as well. I do not guarantee against Mild HD as hips can tighten with age, positioning or heat cycle can be a factor, as well as simple human opinions differing.
I think, even with a verbal agreement that you will replace/refund if the dog has HD, you can still tell them that you need proof and you will require both the x-rays they had taken AND all her health records from the vet (have them make copies and mail directly to you - should include a log about euthanizing her and her age/breed so you have a good idea that it was her and this happened). Tell them without said proof, which their vet already has and shouldn't be any trouble, you couldn't even consider a compensation. After you have them submitted to the OFA and posted here to be read by our "panal of experts" you can decide if she legitimately had or would have had crippling HD and what you want to do about it.
I hope this gets resolved and personally, I hope you don't pay them anything. If they were so concerned about HD, then they should have had her filmed before buying her. Of course there are so many other things that can happen to a pup that appears like it could be their hips... Pano, pulled muscle, etc. They didn't give a care to your personal feelings, or ask that you take her back instead. While they may have gone through an ordeal in the past with HD, or with a breeder not taking back a dog for all we know, this was over the top IMO. At the very least, they should have gotten a second opinion when it came to this pup's life.
My question to you would be is there a physical contract, and if so, can you post your terms here? If not, what is implied on your website or in your verbal agreement? For me, I have a physical contract in place that requires films sent to me (via e-mail is fine) to approve position, then to the OFA, AND at my discretion I can have them read or done again by my vet as well. I do not guarantee against Mild HD as hips can tighten with age, positioning or heat cycle can be a factor, as well as simple human opinions differing.
I think, even with a verbal agreement that you will replace/refund if the dog has HD, you can still tell them that you need proof and you will require both the x-rays they had taken AND all her health records from the vet (have them make copies and mail directly to you - should include a log about euthanizing her and her age/breed so you have a good idea that it was her and this happened). Tell them without said proof, which their vet already has and shouldn't be any trouble, you couldn't even consider a compensation. After you have them submitted to the OFA and posted here to be read by our "panal of experts" you can decide if she legitimately had or would have had crippling HD and what you want to do about it.
I hope this gets resolved and personally, I hope you don't pay them anything. If they were so concerned about HD, then they should have had her filmed before buying her. Of course there are so many other things that can happen to a pup that appears like it could be their hips... Pano, pulled muscle, etc. They didn't give a care to your personal feelings, or ask that you take her back instead. While they may have gone through an ordeal in the past with HD, or with a breeder not taking back a dog for all we know, this was over the top IMO. At the very least, they should have gotten a second opinion when it came to this pup's life.
by Samaris on 15 October 2011 - 14:10
Hi!
Before compensating for some fault/ a dog put down because of something like that, one should always really have complete written veterinary document containing dog identification ja stating the facts of the fault and possible end result (and costs) as proof.
Anybody can claim anything. It does not prove anything. People lie and come up with all kinds of ways trying to get money out of each other - all the time. It's really quite awful, but that's just the way it is :(
Before compensating for some fault/ a dog put down because of something like that, one should always really have complete written veterinary document containing dog identification ja stating the facts of the fault and possible end result (and costs) as proof.
Anybody can claim anything. It does not prove anything. People lie and come up with all kinds of ways trying to get money out of each other - all the time. It's really quite awful, but that's just the way it is :(
by dogshome9 on 16 October 2011 - 09:10
This is the xray that had my puppy PTS
by dogshome9 on 16 October 2011 - 09:10
Sorry correct way up. Please be honest as to your thoughts
by cphudson on 16 October 2011 - 13:10
I'm very sorry this happen to your puppy. The x-ray is very poor quality, & do not show her knees so most likely the puppy wasn't place in correct position for the x-rays. An x-ray like this should have not been the deciding factor to pts a young puppy. The hips would be difficult to get a correct reading of hip quality for me. But they don't look that bad for a puppy.
by sachsenwolf on 16 October 2011 - 13:10
I positioning isn't correct and the image quality makes it difficult to see what is really going on. But from the looks of it, one hip is okay (dog wasn't flat so it's hard to say just how shallow it is) and the other appears to have some flattening of the head (sorry). At the point it is right now I agree that I would have waited until the dog were older and much better films before making any official conclusions. Here's examples of what clear HD looks like at around this age, for comparision. BTW, found them on the web and don't know who are the owners or even the breed, just age.
by sachsenwolf on 16 October 2011 - 13:10
I want to try putting yours in again as it seems blurry above. Hope you don't mind.
by VonIsengard on 16 October 2011 - 15:10
These hips are in no way, shape, or form a death knell for a young dog. How devastating. Limping?! Probably just pano! Wouldn't be the first time a dog was pts for it.
I have a bitch here who is OFA moderate HD. Earned her UD at 3 and her RE at 7. She is now 9 and still happy and healthy. Shame on the buyer, shame on the vet. Something here does not add up.
My contracts specifically states I am given to the opportunity to obtain a second opinion. I suppose I should add to it that euthanasia before this voids the contract. Would you consider privately sharing the name of these buyers? I would certainly not want to sell them a dog.
I have a bitch here who is OFA moderate HD. Earned her UD at 3 and her RE at 7. She is now 9 and still happy and healthy. Shame on the buyer, shame on the vet. Something here does not add up.
My contracts specifically states I am given to the opportunity to obtain a second opinion. I suppose I should add to it that euthanasia before this voids the contract. Would you consider privately sharing the name of these buyers? I would certainly not want to sell them a dog.
by SitasMom on 16 October 2011 - 21:10
Sita went from this at 8 months - note the right hips looks like its flattening theres lots of laxity and left hip looks like its too shallow? Vet said mild at best.
to this at 24 months - she passed ofa as good.......
sorry for your loss
by Bhaugh on 16 October 2011 - 23:10
Someone asked how people can do this without even questioning. Some of the questions I get or hear at adoption events is SO DUMB I just have to shake my head. Im not surprised that a family would take what the vet said without question and put the dog down. Most of us question Anything a vet says but the average person just follows along. And for something like this, it was tragic.
I dont think the hips are that bad. Ive seen far worse. The part I dont get is why bother to spay the dog if the hips were so bad? Why would the vet not just call these people (if this is even what happened) and say " The dogs hips are............." Unfortunately no one really knows what happened since it seems no one wants to give you a straight answer. Why black out the info on the film? Why not return the dog (if she had hip issues) and ask for a refund or a replacement?
The first thing that came to my mind was....did they actually put the dog down? Ive turned vets into the board. Don't hold you breath for a positive outcome. Mine was some time ago so maybe it will go better for you. I received NO satisfaction from doing it.
I would require written records on the dog and you most likely will need the intervention of an attorney UNLESS the owners requested them for you. Without a supeona the vet does not have to help you. Keep us updated on your progress please.
Barb
I dont think the hips are that bad. Ive seen far worse. The part I dont get is why bother to spay the dog if the hips were so bad? Why would the vet not just call these people (if this is even what happened) and say " The dogs hips are............." Unfortunately no one really knows what happened since it seems no one wants to give you a straight answer. Why black out the info on the film? Why not return the dog (if she had hip issues) and ask for a refund or a replacement?
The first thing that came to my mind was....did they actually put the dog down? Ive turned vets into the board. Don't hold you breath for a positive outcome. Mine was some time ago so maybe it will go better for you. I received NO satisfaction from doing it.
I would require written records on the dog and you most likely will need the intervention of an attorney UNLESS the owners requested them for you. Without a supeona the vet does not have to help you. Keep us updated on your progress please.
Barb
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