Arras van't Leefdaalhof - Page 8

ziegenfarm

why not breedings with mink/fero

because, when breeding dogs, you look for traits that compensate for and compliment both dogs involved in the breeding.  the high drives in the fero bred dogs are not complimented by the bullheadedness and handler aggression so wellknown to the mink bred dogs.  the hardness found in the mink dogs is better served by tempering with trainability and willingness.  don't get me wrong, i admire hardness in a dog, but there are certain elements that just don't go well together - like fire and gasoline, very hard to control.  whether you are breeding dogs for sport or for service work, the last thing you want is a dog that you have to fight every step of the way.
i have several fero dogs and i have a few mink/fero dogs.  i also know that not every mink/fero dog is similar to my experiences or those that i know of.  it seems like every time i make some kind of statement, someone else always has to bring up a contrary example.  yes, i know they exist.  i knew a really nice gary erlenbusch son who was nothing at all like the typical crok progeny.  and i have also known some crok sons that deserved nothing less than a shotgun shell.  litters that should never have been.  so.....if you are intent on bringing mink and fero together, it seems like the best success is in bringing mink in thru the dam and fero thru the sire.
additionally, it appears that heavy linebreeding on fero has not resulted in a great deal of undesireables.  i'm sure there are some, but overall they seem to be balanced in both structure and drives.  the only thing i would personally like to see incorporated more into breedings is the intelligence and problem solving ability required of a dog doing real-life work.  the sort of abilities that cannot be trained, but are inherent in a true working dog.
pjp

Pat, excellent post!! I mean really really good post! Same things I have seen in general.

Steve 1,I must say I like the pup ped,I have a female line bred also 2-3 on  Tom and her strong drives suit me very well,let us know how he develops and Jeff I agree too many stud owners in USA can be stingy with what females they are willing to let their Studs breed to,some top studs are way under used and it only hinders the breed instead of helps.

Boy Steve, you need to go out and do BR with that dog, not silly Sch. : )

It should be a real nice dog, and I really hope he is all that. 

I was looking at Lubecks father Inox, mother side, half brother to half sister on mink. 

I was wondering about Fero, as I have seen some of his progeny that were weird nerved, but there you see him over and over and over. I know a lot of people that would not breed to Fero here in the states if they saw some of the dogs he produced. I think that breeders over there are looking generations ahead, and too many breeders here are looking to hit a home run every litter. I think that is possibly another reason the USA fail to do better at breeding.

I am looking to the future, I have a couple nice females, and I cannot wait for them to grow up and see how they produce. I am waiting for the euro to collapse and quit beating the crap out of the dollar so I can get a couple pups from breedings I really like.

Maybe in 5-10 years I can be done with bringing in pups/dogs. Who knows, as it is hard to get anyone to title breeders dogs as it is. : )

I had an idea before i put Hektors Pedigree on that it would not suit a lot of you Guys on here that was why i said it before hand, However i am satisfied with it but saying that we do not know excatly how the Pup will turn out regardless of its breeding good or bad until he grows on but a rough idea of what to expect in a few days of him coming home, certainly within a week or so i will very much know what he has inside him.
Jeff i to am waiting for the Euro to fall but it does niot look like it is going to My Pension comes from the UK and is Sterling and changed to euros i lose out every month it is getting bad
Steve1

Daryl
Both Hectors Father and Mother are  V rated, His mother is full sister to the 2010 WUSV Champion

I've seen Ares in the breeding announcements, including Hektor's litter.  His parents look very nice, structurally.

Quote: 

Jeff I agree too many stud owners in USA can be stingy with what females they are willing to let their Studs breed to,some top studs are way under used and it only hinders the breed instead of helps.

It seems like the really great dogs are produced only by other great dogs that have been bred many many many times.

I have had people want to explain to me why they want to use a dog I have, and honestly, because we are all so very far apart, there is no way that I could have an opinion. I have told people that I am not concerned with what the female is, and I am pretty sure that it has made them angry. We all use the same terminology, but most of us have a difference when we use levels to describe a dogs drive. So, right there, it is too hard when I have not seen the female, and really, we will only see when the pups come if we are right or not.

I know there are breeders out there that people rip on for producing so many litters, but if you ever get a chance to see what they produce, they are pretty much producing the same dogs over and over and over again, as they have bred so much that they "get" it. Too many are so willing to jump on that "puppy mill" bandwagon, that they cannot see anything. I see those people as the same as the people that if you say the word "fuck" they cannot hear anything else that you have said. : )

These same people are out there looking for pups linebred on dogs that were bred 900 times. : ) No Jeff, it is different. HA HA REALLY ?

Steve, I wonder how much the economy has to do with the currency problem. It is traded, and I am no economic genius, but I am sure that does not help out. 

Now you need to get lots of video of that pup growing up, and training.

I have been lazy about that myself, it is well over 100 degrees here during the day, and I train at night after work. Too tired to remember to grab the camera.

Scores may be everything in SCH or sports in general, but if we start selecting dogs based on scores only, I guess we are selecting more from the best trainers and not the best dogs in many cases. Also, if 300 points in SCH is a very good indicator of a dog that has all the tools needed also for police/military/security then I can agree scores is important, but this is far from always the case, or??? The perfect sportdog is not the breedinggoal for all breeders, and some popular studs are not better producers than some others that barely have a SCH1, as a sidenote one of the higest average score in WUSV was performed by a dog  which father was a policedog with no flashy scores to brag about;)

ziegenfarm

thanks god one