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by Lennard on 21 February 2010 - 09:02
Looking at the list of Dogs on Jemima video it does not seem to show Zamp, I wonder why?? is that because he was `correct` and therfore defeats the argument!!
Remember all Dogs at Crufts won at another Champ Show and as many `GSD` owners will not enter Crufts, it is therfore left to the "English" side to try to gain some crediblity. i.e. we won at Crufts
I can remember over hearing Gary Gray saying he only enter this year to show them (GSD People) what a real Shepherd looks like
The Judge can only Judge what is in front of him, it would take a brave Judge to dismiss the whole Class, it has been done I know
Remember all Dogs at Crufts won at another Champ Show and as many `GSD` owners will not enter Crufts, it is therfore left to the "English" side to try to gain some crediblity. i.e. we won at Crufts
I can remember over hearing Gary Gray saying he only enter this year to show them (GSD People) what a real Shepherd looks like
The Judge can only Judge what is in front of him, it would take a brave Judge to dismiss the whole Class, it has been done I know
by peterlee on 21 February 2010 - 10:02
Blerio, you say, ‘The wusv system is not some bible that we must follow without question’. Actually, Mr Owen, for the German Shepherd Dog the WUSV does write the Bible whether you or the Kennel Club like it or not. And in terms of producing healthy, sound dogs which are fit for purpose the WUSV has a tried and tested system which works and the Kennel Club does not.
The defect in the Kennel Club ‘system’ is that about the only thing that DOES matter is the opinion of a judge. In the UK a GSD aged over two years old can enter a KC show without a DNA test, without satisfactory hip scores, without satisfactory elbow scores, without an AD test, without a BH test, without a schutzhund title, without a breed survey and go to the top of the class. Do that three times at the right type of show and before the right type of judge for your dog and you have your ‘Champion’.
Get the ‘opinions’ of three judges and get your ‘champion’. This is the Kennel Club ‘system’ which led to ‘Pedigree Dogs Exposed’, to the AGPAW Report and to the Bateson Report. No-one supports the Kennel Club ‘system’ (apart from the Kennel Club and the people whom the KC ‘system’ suits for one reason or another).
You say, ‘We show under K.C. rules if people don't like it, take up another hobby’. Is that defeatist or what? People want to hold events under WUSV rules in the UK and not to have to ask the Kennel Club’s permission to do it. And they want defined and mandatory tests for GSDs in line with WUSV rules so that GSDs in this country are healthy and fit for purpose. How can anyone possibly object to that?
The defect in the Kennel Club ‘system’ is that about the only thing that DOES matter is the opinion of a judge. In the UK a GSD aged over two years old can enter a KC show without a DNA test, without satisfactory hip scores, without satisfactory elbow scores, without an AD test, without a BH test, without a schutzhund title, without a breed survey and go to the top of the class. Do that three times at the right type of show and before the right type of judge for your dog and you have your ‘Champion’.
Get the ‘opinions’ of three judges and get your ‘champion’. This is the Kennel Club ‘system’ which led to ‘Pedigree Dogs Exposed’, to the AGPAW Report and to the Bateson Report. No-one supports the Kennel Club ‘system’ (apart from the Kennel Club and the people whom the KC ‘system’ suits for one reason or another).
You say, ‘We show under K.C. rules if people don't like it, take up another hobby’. Is that defeatist or what? People want to hold events under WUSV rules in the UK and not to have to ask the Kennel Club’s permission to do it. And they want defined and mandatory tests for GSDs in line with WUSV rules so that GSDs in this country are healthy and fit for purpose. How can anyone possibly object to that?
by pacosbear on 21 February 2010 - 11:02
Mo (penny) has laid out her offer.......... put it in the public domain for all to see ( you can hear that scuffles now - she's mad) but ultimately what does she have to hide. The greatest of respect goes from me to her for this, as having seen this dog on many occassions I think Mo has picked the 'ideal' specimin to prove the point. Just to echo this must be a test completed on pure scientific fact, with everyone happy who the 'Examiners' are and under the conditions the 'test' is carried out. No opinions, no emotiveness, no misrepresentation.
Jemima - here we are again, although I am finding that finally you appear to be going someway to understand the GSD owner/breeders plight - you have the power and on the face of it finally are taking on a little of the responsibility, rather than the old light the touchpaper and stand well back ................. I await with baited breath the outcome of your 'test', and hope it is able to be conducted swiftly and accurately. Likewise maybe as previous posters have commented you need to widen your own outlook, take a proper look at the working line gsds, their movement and function, not specifically just to the UK show scene.....?
I am finding a number of problems with the KC proposals not only for the gsd but other breeds and especially in the show world.... how are you able to judge a dogs is 'healthy' by simply looking at it, and touching it for a few minutes?, by the same token many humans would really benefit from such powers, doctors would have their workloads drasticaly reduced with such skills. And how are you able to assess functionality with 1. some form of function for the dog legally in this country and 2. without some form of working test at each and every show. Knee Jerk Reactions all round then!
Jemima - here we are again, although I am finding that finally you appear to be going someway to understand the GSD owner/breeders plight - you have the power and on the face of it finally are taking on a little of the responsibility, rather than the old light the touchpaper and stand well back ................. I await with baited breath the outcome of your 'test', and hope it is able to be conducted swiftly and accurately. Likewise maybe as previous posters have commented you need to widen your own outlook, take a proper look at the working line gsds, their movement and function, not specifically just to the UK show scene.....?
I am finding a number of problems with the KC proposals not only for the gsd but other breeds and especially in the show world.... how are you able to judge a dogs is 'healthy' by simply looking at it, and touching it for a few minutes?, by the same token many humans would really benefit from such powers, doctors would have their workloads drasticaly reduced with such skills. And how are you able to assess functionality with 1. some form of function for the dog legally in this country and 2. without some form of working test at each and every show. Knee Jerk Reactions all round then!
by Sue B on 21 February 2010 - 12:02
Twinnie and I thought you would be as shy as me about the possibility of being bitten again! lol
Sue x
Sue x
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