On/Off Switch. All genetic or not? - Page 3

Thanks for the in depth replys.

As I mentione din the original post a trainer told me that it is "easy" to teach a dog when to be "off" and when to be "on".  He has vast years of knowledge on me so I couldn't really say to him I think I disagree but really I do. 

I think we all see it with puppies it seems like it is genetic.  Some puppies can play and play but then know to just relax in the house and not run around like maniacs.  Then on the other hand you have some that you have to put every toy up and crate them for awhile before you let them out in the house so they are "forced " to settle down/be off.

Daryl - I am inclinced to agree what you in that it is just their normal "behavior".  Depending on the level training maybe able to impact it to a certain point?

Cassandra - That is a main point for me that I consider.  It isn't just visiable in one aspect but in everything or better yet, the dogs life as a whole and not just training. I feel like certain behaviors will manifest themselves in a variety of places. i.e. home, training, normal outings, etc.

Christine - I didn't think about mental stimulation but you make a great point.  Can it be where exercise isn't the ket but rather the dog needs more mental stimulation?  I have seen dogs where you can walk them for 1-1/2 hours and when you get home they are still bouncing off of the walls.

I have had several dogs where they needed mental "exercise" as much or more than the physical. With my old dog, Ashen, if all I did with him was play ball, he'd be even more wound up than if he hadn't done anything. He loved to train--anything and everything.

Christine

The behavoir of "hyperness" for lack of a better term, can be genetic or it can also be created. Often when created; too much kenneling and crating takes place when they are young. This also leads to other boredom behavoirs. But also, if you do something like breed an ASL to a GWL; and some of the pups have the drive of the WL, and the nerve of the ASL, you will sometimes see hyperness and also very reactive dogs. Nothing is absolute in this breed.

I see some dogs who "leak" while training.  They may or may not have that off switch.  Another crack in the foundation or is it again, genetic?
Is this part of the switch, or just something a dimmer switch will work for?  The ones I see that leak are usually plugged into electric.  Is that  another facet of their leaking?
 I know it isn't black and white description, because all scenario's are different, but the normal sport dog that can't turn off/then leaks in working is one that is constantly controlled via crate or e-collar.  Am I off base in my observations?

Gustav:  "if you do something like breed an ASL to a GWL; and some of the pups have the drive of the WL, and the nerve of the ASL"

 Gustav:  I believe you hit the nail on the head in our particular case.    What is most disturbing is a breeder who would continue to breed these type of tormented dogs and recommend prozac as a quick fix. 

Beestree:  I shared the story of my original SAR trainee and my current GSDs  in response to Ace's post - shown below.  It wasn't meant to distract from the question but rather to share both sides of our experience.  Life with a dog who has an "on" switch but no "off" switch vs balanced dogs that have both. IMO it is genetic.  In a balanced dog on/off behaviors and drives can be enhanced for the better. 
AceI 952 posted "is a dog having a onn/off swtich all genetic?  Can it be really taught and if so does genetics play any part in it or is it all a matter of training?"

In re-reading my post, I realize that it may have sounded as though I thought all puppies that bite hands were candidates for OCD.  I don't think that at all.  But again, in our specific dog's case this was a tell-tale sign of things to come - as a baby she would become single focused on hands and nothing else.  The GSDs I have had since, would bite hands  as pups but could be redirected to playing with toys, tugs, etc.  These same dogs are used in a variety of work related duties and when at home they assume the role of family pet and protector.

I have 2 females with the same sire but different dams.

Faja I describe as a complete meth head, always pacing, searching for something in the house, scratching, chewing, just always go, go, go. In the kennel same way. I would say borderline ocd/ nuerotic. Since she was a puppy I've used the word "enough" as when I say it you stop what your doing no matter what it is. If shes pacing I say "enough" & she stops & comes sits by me. When she hits the field it intesifies. It took the first 6 months of training to "cap" the drive. She can't make things happen like she wants to. Once she calms, then she can bite. I think that helped the most of any training we did. IMO she does not have that "switch" built in.

Her half sister is opposite when in the house. Lays there & just chill. When she goes for walks or training she lights up very good but in the truck, at home or crate she's a pet & act likes one.  IMO she has that "switch" that was never trained just in her already. 

Another note Sif (the one with the switch) has alot more natural aggression & confidence than Faja (meth head). When she turns on she gets serious while Faja has so much drive carrying her that she never really gets as serious.
Not sure if it's related to WHY they have that switch ie: confidence, aggression but something I think about. Sif (switch) walks around calm like she's the queen of the jungle & has no worries.    

To answer your question is it genetic.... I have no clue. Same dad, different mom = polar opposites. I keep in touch with littermates on facebook & they have similar stories....

I believe it can be taught to an extent, depending on the dog. Faja can calm for only so long when I tell her "enough"

I think training is training. whether you train that switch in the house or the field it's training. I say "enough" in the house, on the field, in the truck at work it all means the same thing. Stop what your doing.

Kinda rambled but hope that helps.

My own theory is that on/off is an inability to shut off firing of neurotransmitters in the brain, and they keep firing albeit at a slower rate. Similar to the situation where a dog does not "out', where the firing of neurons is at its max.

Wait there's an off switch?! :D My dogs only came with a dimmer...

Ace,
You said:

As I mentione din the original post a trainer told me that it is "easy" to teach a dog when to be "off" and when to be "on". He has vast years of knowledge on me so I couldn't really say to him I think I disagree but really I do.  

Are you talking about teaching a dog to "turn on" and "turn off" while working or dogs that have an "off switch?"  These are two very different things.  One thing I train is to get dogs to "turn on" with serious instant aggression and to also "turn off" the aggression instantly when told.  This is not the same as a dog with an "off switch" that when finished working or training goes hime and chills out.  Sorry, I didn't read all of the posts on this thread, just skimmed it and saw your comment above.  I would agree with the trainer who said this to you if he is talking about "turning on and off" in bitework.  It is easy with certain dogs and requires more work with high prey drive dogs that are less civil.  But it can be done fairly easily if you know what to do.