12X SchH 3 - Page 6

Didn`t want to answer any more, but -

WORKINGDOGZ, you got it !!!

susie, I didn't either, but to let the uninformed statements
stand is not fair to those that work hard with their dogs!

I didn't bother to touch on International competitors,
I know what it's like for us to travel without a dog, and I
have spoke with enough world level competitors to know
how nerve wracking it can be with a dog, especially a dog
you plan on going half way around the world with and competing.
Certainly the dog has to have good solid nerve and temperment
to be able to travel around the world and compete in 3 phases.

To make blanket statements that numerous title repeats is
not any way to evaluate a dog is just plain silly.
No way can you duplicate the exact same trial environment
each time. So yes, looking at the dogs trial history tells me
alot about the dog. Once again, different fields, different countries,
different judges, different everything.

The only constant is the rules of the game. And that is the baseline
we can all use anywhere in the world. SchH3-IPO3 are the same rules
and regulations in every country. The only way to have kind of a level
playing field.

"The only constant is the rules of the game." 

I wouldn't even be brave enough to make THAT statement.  Anyway, what "more" are you going to learn of your dog when you take it to susie's field and judge?  Not much, so the philosophical blanket statement effect might as well apply to anyone who said ANYTHING in this ridiculous thread.  The only point I learned here, was that SOME people have to argue over just about everything.

For me training and trialing are what *I* make of it.  I did a BH yesterday, easy-peasy (did it in warm weather in the sun after the dog had just done an AD) but guess what....I DID learn something about my dog and my training even though we passed and performed every exercises perfect or damn near.  I don't really care what people on a forum or on the sidelines think about my dogs or my training or my trialing.  I trial when I want to where I want to for the reasons that *I* want to and whether that means holding a dog back and not trialing, or trialing the same dog repeatedly is not really any random person's business.

VkGSD's,
I agree completely! Too often club members try to pressure members into trialing dogs that are not ready.  Or the handler is not ready or just doesn't want to trial at that particular time.  You are exactly correct in trialing when and where you want for what ever reason with your dog.  It's your dog and your time, dedication, training and hard work. 

VK & Slam, Susie etc,
It's pretty obvious, at least to me,
those that 'do',
actually 'get' what I am saying.

Those that don't, sit back and yipyap
about how it won't tell you anything
to repeat a title on your dog.

If only there was a way to make a
multi colored chart that would break this
down into a much more simple explanation

I also trial for myself.  I am the biggest thing holding my dog back.  I get nervous trialing (even for a dumb CGC!) and tend to sort of cramp up, get real stiff, make my dogs anxious.  Sometimes I trial my dogs when I know they are not going to be as good as they might be down the road, but I never trial if I think we're going to look foolish.  The only fail/NQ I have with all my dogs is one Level 1 agility run where I barely knew what I was doing. The more I trial, the better handler *I* become and thus the better my dogs can show off because I'm not acting weird.

Training is where my priority lies and where I learn the most about my dog and have the most fun *but* there are definitely things I learn about my dogs in a trial situation that training just cannot replicate.

Now I don't have any 12X SchH3 but who am I to speculate about why someone would do that?  Why not just ask the handler?  I would think that someone with that accomplishment would be willing to talk about it and should be proud of it.  The only thing I can really relate it to was when I was a gymnast.  Say I master a new, difficult trick...do I compete it once successfully and drop it from the routine?!  Hecks no, I keep on competing it until I either can't compete anymore or I replace it with an even better trick!

workingdogz, what you're saying isn't all that difficult to "get", believe me.  You've just sort of lost the point, and deviated on your own.  If you can't tell enough about a particular dog in ONE hour's time on ANY given day, I see no need to waste any more time.

Trialing multiple times is done for other reasons, I would hope, and I don't at all disagree that it demonstrates more about "the team", the commitment, and the development of handling skills.

But, as a measuring stick for evaluating THE dog, the multiple titling is not a useful way to presume much of a dog's worth in my book.

VK
I am impressed at the diversity of your dogs.
I am also impressed that you were in fact able to
title them in so many varied venues, all while being
'far too pretty'    However did you manage?

It appears that the only criteria some need for
evaluating breeding dogs is that they
are fertile and can jump on and off rocks.

Most other people that actually
have experience with the breed prefer to stick with
using an established and consistant format that is
recognized world wide to evaluate dogs.

It would require those experts to have to get off
their ass and out from behind the keyboard and
actually get their dogs out there in the real world
to know what the rest of us are talking about.
There are those that sit back and belittle the achievements
of owners and dogs with such ease it's
sickening, and yet they have NO CLUE what it takes to
get one title, let alone 12 or more.

Until then, they can always make some more colored charts,
regurgitate some more genetic graphs, and talk about
how shitty titled dogs are as they back another one up to
make some more puppies from untested dogs.
12x SchH3? How about no times ANYTHING???

Oh, don't forget to mention that the puppies
are linebred XXXXXX times on 'Yoschy' in the ad too.

I won't give any more of my time to trying to
explain this, some don't get it,  won't ever get it.
Mainly because it's easier to sit back and do nothing.

So how many times SchH3 before being breedworthy to you?  Post a pedigree of one of your dogs, and let's see how many of it's ancestors attended multiple events.  Especially females.  Then, let's examine some of the most influential producers of today's standing lines, and see how many times they had to prove themselves in the field, and to what level, before they were deemed worthy as producers.  That "established format" you mention is FAR from consistent, as being able to measure what produces well and what does not.  But don't waste your time, you may never get it.